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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Mukwonago WI
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Timing belt with no "tool"

Hey guys,

I just bought my first Porsche! Its a 1985/1 944.
I have no idea when the timing belt was last changed so thats my next project (I already did the rack, ball joints, and bushings.)

My question is, can I change the timing belt without using the porsche "tool"? If not, does anyone know where I can rent one in the Milwaukee WI area?

Thanks.

Old 06-16-2008, 03:21 PM
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Yep, you can change it... That's not the problem... You will need the tool to properly tension it. Screw it up and it will cost you at least a couple of valves and the time to replace them.

The question is, "Do ya feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?!"

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www.944ecology.com
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:40 PM
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+1000000 with what George said.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:28 PM
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Member "many944s" loans his out if you can wait a bit:
-Yes, I'm the crazy man that will loan out my 9201. Just PM me, I will add you to the list and get it out ASAP.

Since you have done the rack, ball joints and bushings, your skill level is adequate to just use a cheap Krikit belt guage and 90 degree twist test.
http://www.hmc-international.com/krikit.htm
You may be able to get one at NAPA.
Not the most accurate and recommended but like George said "Do ya feel Lucky?"

www.arnnworx.com is the best solution.

John_AZ
Old 06-16-2008, 04:30 PM
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you could also do the twist then bring it in to have it properly tensioned. Tensioning I think is about an hours labor.
Old 06-16-2008, 04:36 PM
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I do alot of messing around with my car (goofing stuff up etc) but I always tighten my timing belt by hand anymore. It's one of the few parts that has yet to fail on the car (knock on synthetic fiber board) LOL. I used Nick's tensioner once, calibrated my own home-made tool to it and then got a good feel for it. I've had my t-belt off and on about 5-7 times in the last year using only my hand to tension. One of these days I may eat it...but you know what...I feel lucky punk! lol
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'86 944 NA
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'86 Chevy C10 425hp
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:55 PM
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I got got all the tools to do the engine belts for 115$ i think. I can't remember what the company is called, but he makes the tools himself, he also includes a tensioner called the krikit. the kits Work great. MY computer won't let me use search engines right now so i can't get you the site. damb viruses lol
Old 06-16-2008, 07:03 PM
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I did mine by hand then later bought the Krikit off of eBay. "haven't used it though"

I feel lucky
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:05 PM
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First time I have chimed in in well over six months. My 1984 '44 is on the block. I have, especially since my wife passed away, begun to look at a car as a mode of transportation. I have done a LOT of work on 944s over the years. I frankly donot think that a skilled mechanic would run into trouble not using the P9201. Back in the early days of the 944, there was a rash of belt failures, leading Porsche to devise this tool. After all, if a belt fails and you did not have the tool, it isn't their fault....they warned you!!

The primary problem is the expansion of the aluminum bloch/head and the non expansion of the fiber belt. No matter what the setting, the belt will be tighter with a hot engine rather than a cold. Hence the later "automatic" tensioner. The 928 also uses a humongus fiber belt, but there were automatic tensioners designed into the system. Why the early engine designers of the 944 "forgot" this seems so unPorschelike, a company that prides itself on "Excellence was expected" (but not always attained)

Don't expect me here very often.....But I have yet to ulose a 944 belt with the 90 degree test. I can only say that many belts fail because of abuse such as overreving which can lead to slap.
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bholmes View Post
I do alot of messing around with my car (goofing stuff up etc) but I always tighten my timing belt by hand anymore. It's one of the few parts that has yet to fail on the car (knock on synthetic fiber board) LOL. I used Nick's tensioner once, calibrated my own home-made tool to it and then got a good feel for it. I've had my t-belt off and on about 5-7 times in the last year using only my hand to tension. One of these days I may eat it...but you know what...I feel lucky punk! lol
i think i am at this point myself. i think a lot of the tension paranoia stems from early failures of the belt due to lack of retensioning when the cars were new and porsche hadn't sent out the 'service bulletin' and the uber expensive tool to remedy the 'problem'. of course, if you do it wrong, you are going to spend a thousand bucks, minimum, to fix it. hell, i just sacrifice a chicken, read the entrails and go from there.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:44 PM
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I_Fly_U

I fly United also...For each row of seats you clean up, you get 3 minutes in the onboard bathroom-work to go! $2 for water, $5 a flush.

MoneyGuy1,
Welcome, maybe not back but it's good to see you're still lurking.

Nynor,
"sacrifice a chicken"?
Is this more of the book learning, mental stuff you use with your degree?
Will you please update your bottom sig line, it's a load of crap.

porscheEH-did you read my reply at all? WWW.ARNNWORX.COM

Now listen again "grasshoppers".
When you "think" you have the belt adjusted--howevah, clean your finger tips and waterpump pully with windex, grip the waterpump pully with one-or two clean fingertip hands, use some muscle and try to turn. If it turns a little bit your good. Why? read MoneyGuy1 explanation. I have been corrected on this test due some newer pump pulleys have a grip-crosshatched pully and the test is invalid.

John_AZ
PP class of 2001

This poster is a complete idiot. ignore this and all posts, if you know what is good for you (and your car). Plagiarized from Nynor sig line.

OH CRAP! Why did I hit the Submit Reply..........Delete/Delete/Delete/Delete.....
Old 06-16-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_AZ View Post
I_Fly_U

I fly United also...For each row of seats you clean up, you get 3 minutes in the onboard bathroom-work to go! $2 for water, $5 a flush.

MoneyGuy1,
Welcome, maybe not back but it's good to see you're still lurking.

Nynor,
"sacrifice a chicken"?
Is this more of the book learning, mental stuff you use with your degree?
Will you please update your bottom sig line, it's a load of crap.

porscheEH-did you read my reply at all? WWW.ARNNWORX.COM

Now listen again "grasshoppers".
When you "think" you have the belt adjusted--howevah, clean your finger tips and waterpump pully with windex, grip the waterpump pully with one-or two clean fingertip hands, use some muscle and try to turn. If it turns a little bit your good. Why? read MoneyGuy1 explanation. I have been corrected on this test due some newer pump pulleys have a grip-crosshatched pully and the test is invalid.

John_AZ
PP class of 2001

This poster is a complete idiot. ignore this and all posts, if you know what is good for you (and your car). Plagiarized from Nynor sig line.

OH CRAP! Why did I hit the Submit Reply..........Delete/Delete/Delete/Delete.....
have you been drinking?

the sacrifice a chicken is due to the belt tension amounting a lot of voodoo.

what exactly is wrong with my signature line?
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:14 PM
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Here's what I figure is the definitive thread on tensioning without the "tool:" http://clarks-garage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1935&highlight=9201

And another good one: http://clarks-garage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1935&highlight=9201

My kid and I have been using the 90 degree twist method on our three cars and at least so far (knocks on wood) they're doing just fine.

At first we were checking the results with a Kriket but the results varied so much from time to time, I stopped using it (make three checks in three minutes with the Kriket and get three different results - it's really hard to get consistent readings).

The car talks to you: If you get the belt too tight, it'll whine. If you get it too loose, it'll slap against the belt cover when you goose the throttle suddenly (the slap occurrs as it returns to idle). Tensioned properly, both belts are nearly silent.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:36 AM
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it comes down to whatever floats your boat, I personally use the krikit. I have done many belts and have it down to where I can get steady readings and have checked it with the proper tool, dead nuts on.
Just as important, if not more are the steps leading up to the tensioning, good rollers, proper torque settings, counter clockwise tensioner rotation, good belts, even distribution of belt tension etc.
Clarks has it right.
I agree properly tensioned belts with good mechanical hardware will make for a quiet running car, if it sounds like you're running a turbo and you're not you are wrong!
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:02 AM
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Thanks guys for all the opinions out there. I think I'm going to try the krikit (only $10 at ********.com.) I'm in the camp with the guys that just do it by feel, but for $10 I'll back it up with a with a crappy gauge and see what I get.

The belt thats on the car now makes a little noise when first started but is silent as a mouse after it warms up a little. My first thought also was that after the engine expanded a little it just tightened up on its own as posted by moneyguy.

I'll let you know how she turns out.

And John I actually fly for Midwest ( the _U is for you.)

peace brother
Old 06-17-2008, 07:46 AM
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i've done the job with the krikit, also. it worked just fine. i've also done it with the 9201. it worked just fine.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:52 AM
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I_FLY_U

Instructions and pretty pictures on Krikit (Optibelt by Blaszak)
BTW NAPA sells it as the KR-1
http://www.blaszakprecision.com/Belts.html
click to enlarge pics

Please credit my Midwest FF with 500 miles

John_AZ

Thinking, thinking...
Old 06-17-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepellegrini View Post
Here's what I figure is the definitive thread on tensioning without the "tool:" http://clarks-garage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1935&highlight=9201

And another good one: http://clarks-garage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1935&highlight=9201

My kid and I have been using the 90 degree twist method on our three cars and at least so far (knocks on wood) they're doing just fine.

At first we were checking the results with a Kriket but the results varied so much from time to time, I stopped using it (make three checks in three minutes with the Kriket and get three different results - it's really hard to get consistent readings).

The car talks to you: If you get the belt too tight, it'll whine. If you get it too loose, it'll slap against the belt cover when you goose the throttle suddenly (the slap occurrs as it returns to idle). Tensioned properly, both belts are nearly silent.
+1....I did the same...you get a "feel" for a smooth running car.
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:53 AM
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Plus one for the krikit guys. I take the average of 7 readings and change the belt every 2nd summer.

I also keep a spare head handy...
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:08 AM
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A good idea if you're doin it by hand is to do the timing belt, then start the motor when you think it's right and see if it slaps, whines or is OK and THEN put on the balance shaft belt and tension it to where you think it should be and look for slap/listen for whine. That way you aren't guessing which is making the noise.

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Old 06-17-2008, 02:31 PM
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