Stock Brake Upgrade

DSPTurtle · 07-02-2008, 06:16 PM

So this past weekend I put the stock brakes to the test. Two straight days of DE at Sebring. Lots of hard braking and plently of brake dust... Turned out to be about 250 track miles. Full tank of gas +5 gallons and two quarts of Mobil 1 15/50.

At the end of day one the brakes started feeling a little soft. Nothing major but not as hard as the start of the day. By the end of day two I had to brake about 50-100 feet earlier due to the pucker factor of a soft pedal. So I am thinking that it might be time to see what options I have with regard to pads and fluid.

The front rotors were just turned so they are in pretty good shape otherwise I would find some slotted rotors to replace them. About a year ago I installed DOT approved stainless lines. I currently have stock Pagid pads and Super Blue fluid.

I am wondering if I should go to an R4 or R4S pad? Or is there something that you guys like better?

Also, is there a "better" brake fluid to run for high performance driving? I have heard that Motul makes something but I am not sure which type to use.

Has anyone run any kind of ducting to the stock system?

I am comfortable staying with the stock system right now. I don't want to drop big $ on a Wilwood or other setup. I love the braking ability, I just want it to not go mushy. Any thoughts are always appreciated!!!

Jrad0425 · 07-02-2008, 06:27 PM

Hey DPS, I was wondering what your currently running. I have an 84 and am in desperate need of new pads as my rear is eager to lock and my front is um... not so eager, What fluid and pads are you running and is this a Daily Driver, or better yet what would you suggest for the stock calipers
thanks.

Rasta Monsta · Rasta Monsta's Garage

Check in with EBS Racing for their "Ult" ceramic pads. After 10 track days and two years of daily driving on my 931, they are still at 50% plus. They are dusty, and are probably killing the rotors, but the braking power is outstanding. Also, for brake fluid, I am using Prestone high temp synthetic.

No boil, no fade. . .just a tender spleen.

flashgordon13 · 07-03-2008, 02:16 AM

If the pedal is getting mushy, you could try bleeding the brakes to see if this helps. It is not uncommon to need to bleed the brakes after a hard day at the track. You may have boiled some fluid in the calibers and the result would be a soft pedal. Are the pads worn or is this simply a soft pedal? If the pads don't show excessive wear and they still stop good then you really don't need to upgrade thet pads. I run the super blue fluid and don't have any complaints so long as I keep the fluid fresh.

DSPTurtle · 07-03-2008, 06:49 AM

I am just trying to figure out if there is something better then fresh Super Blue???

Jrad0425 · 07-03-2008, 07:40 AM

Does anyone have experience with the Hawk HPS line Lindsey Racing sells? Im looking for something for my DD and occasional Autox car

Cking1975 · 08:50 AM

When I ran track events in the old day back in California...I changed the brake fluid at the end of the event.

Do you have brake fad ?

Are the brakes sound in the beginning ?

If your brakes are good from the start you are ok with the setup you have you just need better pads...I really like Green Stuff pads...some don't but I was able to out-brake full on race cars in my lightly modified Honda Prelude using these pads, and the Honda and Porsche are similar in weight and braking ability (at least the base 944) MY S2 will send you through the windsheild.

One track days:

brake fluid change (chemicals compound break down under extreme heat) You can use expensive stuff and still have to change it, or you can run standard high (Castrol) brake fluid and change it, either way to reduce brake fade use fresh fluid. I don't care what BS ATE says, I felt the same brake fade with all the brake fluids.

Tire Inspection and air pressure check

Brake Pad inspection replace pads if unever wear or damaged

In addition running a car on a track often means:

Oil changes @ 3000K

Transmission Oil 5-7K (shifting many many more times than street driving and harder)

Front rotors usually go @ 10-12K

This my experience (maybe not everybody)

flash968 · 07-03-2008, 08:58 AM

i have tried a LOT of different brake pads over the years, and i like the R4S by far the best on every car i've ever tried them on - they hold up very well to hard braking, generate less dust than oem, and stop better (assuming you break them in correctly - see stoptech on this procedure)

this is a street compund that i have found very effective in DE events, as well as on the 325, and on my tow rig (06 yukon denali) even when dragging 7000 lbs

924Sman · 07-03-2008, 01:02 PM

The next step up is Castrol SRF and it is 80 bucks. Never had a problem with Super Blue or Gold. Next time go gold so you can see the color change. When it turns all amber you know all the blue is out. Same fluid just not blue. Sounds like you are rather hard on braking, try to adjust your driving style and see if it helps. Such as on the brakes and off just as quick as possible, drivers at times have a tendency to ride the brakes at the end of a long straight. Pick your stopping point and jam the brakes to speed and get off them,downshift and turn in and back on the gas all as fast as you possibly can. Let your downshifting assist scrubbing what little speed is left to reduce. So in a way allow the downshift and next gear to share the stopping with the brakes.

Dal

Dantilla · 07-03-2008, 02:33 PM

I race my 944 with stock brakes. Porterfield R4 pads, Motul fluid, and brake cooling ducts in place of the fog lights.

My autocross car uses R4S brake pads.

The 944, even with stock brakes, can out-brake most cars on the race track. Especially towards the end of a race- Other cars are needing to brake sooner, while the 944 uses the same braking points throughout the entire race.

DSPTurtle · 07-03-2008, 02:34 PM

SMan, I thought that was bad for the trans? I heel toe to get the revs up a little past where they need to be for engagement to try to take it easy on the trans. Sebring has 17 turns and 5 of them are braking from over 100mph. One of the turns is 100mph down to about 30mph. Right after that you go from 100mph to about 40-50mph. So there is some serious braking. I try to threshold brake and do it early to go easy on the brakes, but after a full day, let alone two, I guess the heat takes its toll.
Has anyone used Castrol SRF? I don't mind dropping $80 for the piece of mind knowing that the brakes will be there when slowing on the back and front straight!!!

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

JB, i am also a fan of the R4 pads for track.. i use the R4S for street aswell. Porterfield will be getting all of my money for new brake pads. If you are doing track mostly, go for the R4. The R4S will only last a newbie driver (even though newbies are usually the hardest on the brakes). You may also want to try the KFP Magnum, a few guys in my area swear by those. Lots of squealing but still livable on the street.

Something that might be worth trying is adding brake cooling. There are a few options available like aftermarket backing plates that replace the dust shields or the factory solution from the 968 (control arm and strut mounted scoops).

Upgrading isnt to bad an option either.. stock 951 brakes are more than adequete for the light weight and relatively under powered n/a. I had them on my old '87 and loved the setup. You can do it for pretty cheap also (depending where you find parts, sub $500 range)..all you really need are the front spindles from an '86 951 (and obviously the calipers, rotors..etc).

DSPTurtle · 07-04-2008, 03:44 PM

I run the R4S on all my street cars... love the fact that they dust less and last forever. On my wife's ML430 we got about 70k miles out of the last pair... and that is a monster on brakes. I always ran the stock pads on the 944... no particular reason other then I was trying to keep it stock but after the springs, and struts/shocks it is a slippery slope

I will give the R4S a try. I wonder if Porterfield will give me a deal if I buy a few sets at once. The ML needs new pads too

Now for brake fluid... anyone run the Castrol SRF and really, really like it better then Super Blue? I have been a Super Blue convert for about 8 years. Run it in all my cars but jsut looking for something better???

Jrad0425 · 07-04-2008, 06:12 PM

DPS could you suggest a good or "the Best" set of pads for my 84 944NA I mostly use it as a Daily Driver where I drive "spirited" all day and On top of that, I'd like to do some Autox events... Thanks for your suggestions. Any setup is probably better than my current OEM and Messed up Rotors, (I will be getting them cut when I do the breaks)

944Spec_bound · 07-04-2008, 11:46 PM

Can't help on the brake advise, but I'm curious what outfit are you running DE's with that you get that many track miles?
I've been doing NASA events, usually about 75 miles per day, max! I guess it depends on the track, but that seems like alot of driving. I've heard Trackmasters and Speedventures get more track time.

DSPTurtle · 07-05-2008, 08:14 AM

Jrad... I love the R4S for that type of driving. They last forever, don't fade and dust much less then stock. And they are easy on rotors. Goto www.porterfield.com and if you can't find them just call... the folks are extremely knowledgable.
Spec, I am doing DEs with the Suncoast and Citrus region at Sebring in central Florida. The track is 3.7 miles. You get 30 minutes 3 times per day. This last weekend I zeroed my odometer on the false grid on the first run and when I loaded it on the trailer it read about 230 miles. There are about five really long straightaways that are good for topping out fourth gear in my 8v NA. Shifting to fifth is waste unless you are trying to let the motor cool down