early 944 fuel line REPLACEMENT. HELP!!!

thoen · 09-07-2007, 03:42 PM

Hi,
it is the same post but what i really want to do is replace my two lines going from the tubing to the rail. how easy/hard is it. can i find a point under the car that can make a better connection to a new hard line that has a connector for the flexible hose? has anyone done this? the hoses look alright to me but they are 24yrs old and what can i say, something might go bad and i want to avoid this by replacing them
thanks a second time!!!!

mfloren · 09-08-2007, 08:23 AM

I have does this i can send you a photo. but the easiest correction is using Lindseyracing.com or speedforceracing.com they both have "bolt on kits"

the total cost to me for mine was about $550, but it is a fully custom, Tig welded bar with -8 ends, steel braid to and from with a 5bar FPR, and a Nitrous Hockup

thoen · 09-08-2007, 09:27 AM

thank you.
the fuel line is behind the brake booster and it looks hard to get to. i would love to try the linsey but will have to wait to hear from them.
DO SHOW PHOTO(s)!!
thanks again,
e

fast924S · fast924S's Garage

I alwasy anted to eplae mine, But Im not sure how hard it will be as mine come from the d/s and over the intake manifold, Alll the ones I have seen come from the p/s over the exhaust. Has anyone done fuel line replacments on fuel lines that come from the d/s???? Also Mfloren do you have a pic of your fuel system setup. I am gonna be installing nitrous too and was gonna tpe off the stock fuel rail (where the check port is). Sorry for steeling the thread ;-)

thoen · 09-08-2007, 11:33 AM

no problem with "stealing" the thread as long as we can find out how to replace the fuel hoses on the early 944 (and 924?)

onZedge · 09-08-2007, 03:40 PM

I am waiting on metric fittings from hoseandfittings dot com. Since my hard lines come up behind the brake booster, my plan is to unbolt the entire fuel line(s) from the clips under the car, and drop them for better access. I can post part numbers here for the Parker-Hannifin metric-L fittings and the Aeroquip fuel hose if you like. So far it's about $95 for fittings and about $30 for the hose. I'm replacing the fuel supply line, the damper to rail jumper line and the FPD return line under the hood only. All threaded or metric EO (invented in Germany) bite fittings - no hose clamps. The lines at the tank and pump are already new OEM hoses.

thoen · 09-08-2007, 05:00 PM

onZedge,
that is exactly what i want to hear. how are the lines connected under the car. are there separate lines that connect into each other or is it all one? please post the part numbers so that i can do some research. i want to do what you are doing so PLEASE keep me posted?

onZedge · 10:44 PM

OK, you asked for it:
The hard supply line is 10mm and the hard return line is 8mm. They are both clipped to plastic brackets (like a dozen) that are attached to the belly with, I believe, phillips screws. Both front and rear sections of each line are joined with union fittings found (approximately) under the drivers seat. Each front section, from the union fittings forward, is hard line on one end and crimped-on hose on the engine compartment end. The crimped-on hoses are the ones we want to replace. We also want to replace the jumper hose assembly between the fuel pressure damper and the fuel rail. That's the one that causes those pesky engine fires.

My plan is to use Parker-Hannifin 82 Series Push-Lok hose fittings x L-Series metric female globe fittings to interface to the existing 16mm x 1.5 male DIN7631 fittings on the fuel rail and damper. Hose will be (250PSI) Aeroquip AQP Socketless high temp (300 deg F) fuel line, -6 (3/8") for supply and -4 (1/4") for return. I'll use Parker-Hannifin Series 82 Push-Lok hose fittings x EO-Series metric bite fittings to interface to the existing 10mm and 8mm hard lines once I cut off the crimped-on hose ends.

Parker fitting part numbers (chromate plated steel):
3C382-10-6 female 16mm x 1.5 globe X -6 Push-Lok hose end (straight)
3C482-10-6 female 16mm x 1.5 globe X -6 Push-Lok hose end (45 degree)
3C582-10-6 female 16mm x 1.5 globe X -6 Push-Lok hose end (90 degree)
3D082-10-6 male EO 10mm socket X -6 Push-Lok hose end (straight)
3D082-8-4 male EO 8mm socket X -4 Push-Lok hose end (straight)
FM10LA3C metric EO 10mm compression nut
FM08LA3C metric EO 8mm compression nut

Aeroquip hose part numbers:
FC332-06 3/8" hose
FC332-04 1/4" hose

DISCLAIMER: This is what I'm planning to do. Do what you want. I'm not responsible for the consequenses of what you do and how you do it. In any event, I HIGHLY recommend visiting the Parker and Aeroquip web sites and research how the fittings are supposed to be assembled and used as well as their installation notes.

I hope this is the level of detail you were looking for. I researched the hell out of this.

thoen · 09-09-2007, 04:56 AM

Thank you!!
I accept the disclaimer.
signed,
ernest

thoen · 09-21-2007, 06:37 PM

Edek,
did you get the parts and have you started the line replacement?

onZedge · 09-21-2007, 08:32 PM

Yes, I got the parts. I thought the Aeroquip hose would be readily available locally. SECO and Speedsouth carry Russell and Earl's (Holley) respectively, but I would still have to order it from them. Guess I need to check out Jeg's and Summit.

The fitting at the lower right is from an old fuel filter, which is the same DIN7631 male nipple found on the fuel rail and the FPD:

EMBPilot · EMBPilot's Garage

fuel line replacement...

onZedge · 09:50 AM

The bite fittings I specified above (Parker EO-2) are good for 900 bar (13,000 PSI) if installed properly. The EO-2 fittings also provide a hermetic seal (zero leaks they claim). Like a chain, the weakest link in the completed hose assembly is the hose itself. The hose has a working pressure of 17 bar (250 PSI) with a minimum burst pressure of 70 bar (1000 PSI). I am only assuming (Eaton documentation was not specific) these values are at the extremes of the operating temperature ranges of 150 degC (302 degF) and, for our northern friends with metric speed limits, -40 degC/F. The maximum temperature range of the hose is de-rated to 200 degF when used with petroleum based fuels. The only way the hose end will pull off the fitting is if the maximum burst pressure of the hose is exceeded by what's referred to as a "water hammer" (shock wave) from something like a solenoid valve closing. That's why they don't recommend push-on fittings for hydraulic impulse applications.

Anyway, this is what I found in my research. I don't make any promises or guarantees. Ultimately, it's your call.

Also, the 924S fuel lines are routed behind the brake booster, not over the exhaust manifold. All the fuel line "kits" I found were for 944s only. This is how I got to this point in the first place. I was forced to come up with my own "kit" that didn't use any intermediate adapter fittings. I certainly will NOT market this because of all the legal $hit involved. However, I am more than happy to share my researched information with all of you.

thoen · 09-22-2007, 06:02 PM

edek,
I am going this route:
the hose that connects to the hard lines have a serrated clamp. i have been told that this can be removed (torn or cut offf) and then after the hose is pulled off, there is a nipple on the hard line. i was thinking of attaching the new hose over this nipple and use a hose clamp to hold the hose down (the same way that Porsche did it).
i have the router on my rail that goes from the regulator to the dampner built into the rail. it is a 1983 and it does not use a hose to do this. that partdoes not need to be replaced on mine.
i want to buy the stainless airoquip (spelling?) fuel hose and attach the connector to it to connect to the fuel regulator. which pieces do i need for that part? the other hose that goes from the hard line to the dampner is held on by a clamp and i will do the same. wouldn't this work? i also did some research and it seems to have worked for others. why use the crimp connectors on the hard line when there is already a nipple to hold the pressure with a clamp?
am i wrong about this or does it make sense? i am newish to this and would love your input!!
thanks for your hard work, i learned a lot!!!!
ernest

thoen · 09-22-2007, 06:09 PM

By the way,
those parts look BEAUTIFUL!!!!

onZedge · 09-22-2007, 08:11 PM

I'm not exactly shure I understand. The only factory hose fuel hose clamp I see in the engine compartment is the FPR return line. I have a 924S. A 944 might be different. Using stainless braided hose with the correct fittings to match our fuel rail can get very expensive. See this site if you are thinking of going that way: www.batinc.net

Braided stainless hose basically comes in two styles. The teflon lined version requires the use of expen$ive crimp-on or reusable fittings - you absolutely can NOT use a hose clamp. Some rubber lined versions use crimp-on or reusable fittings and other rubber lined versions CAN be used with a hose clamp provided you are connecting to a bump nipple (like the FPR return line) or hose barb.

thoen · 09-23-2007, 12:10 PM

the rubber hose that connects to the hard pipe has a pressure fitting that clamps on to the nipple of the hard line. underneath that non-removable fitting is a hard line nipple. these are the two liens behind the brake booster.
i have no trouble in using the blue airoquip hose, it looks beautiful. i was going to spice up the hoses using airoquip stainless braided covered nigh pressure hose. the price is not much more. i thought, perhaps i am wrong, that they could use the same connectors as one would use for the regular soft airoquip hose. if it requires expensive parts, i am immediately counted out.
anyway. please photograph your progress for all of us to see.
ps. my hosos right now look like they are in new condition considering that they probably are 24yrs old. my car now has 90k miles. i will buy those lindsey hose heat covers anyway and proceed with the replacement next summer, just for the hell of it.
thanks for all of your updates and don't forget......

PHOTOS!!!!

your friend,
ernest

thoen · 09-23-2007, 12:30 PM

kevin,
i read the thread you are referring to. this one relates to the weird position of the hard lines coming into the compartment and behind the brake booster. the access to the hard lines is a PIA!!!
anyway.....

onZedge · 09-23-2007, 10:06 PM

Yeah, it sure does look like a PITA. To get to the end of the hard fuel lines behind the brake booster, my plan is to undo a bunch of the plastic clips that hold the fuel lines to the belly and drop the fuel lines for access from below. That's my plan. How well it works, I dunno. I might just undo the unions, take the damn fuel lines completely out of the car, and modify them on my workbench. Actually sounds like a better plan...

thoen · 09-30-2007, 03:32 PM

Edek,
i got the screw size of the input from you but what about the bottom of the regulator?
i hate to say this, but i don't know enough about these connectors to figure it out. the connector at the bottom left in the picture, is that the one that goes into the regulator? is that the same size as the one that goes to the damper? what is the size? it sounds dumb but which of the parts on your list is that one. i didn't want to sound ignorant, so i posted another another thread so not to ask you again but you found me anyway!!!. i guess i should stop being shy and just ask you. i think you know a lot more about these things than i do. which of the connectors on the list goes to what part. pretend that I know nothing about this? ( i am trying to learn and put this whole thing together on my own (with help from guys like you!!!))
Best,

ernest