It's ALIVE...sorta

[S-G-Covin]

The little silver money eater has finally “passed” her first inspection. Whoopee! So I wanted to take a few seconds to thank everyone here at Pelican for putting up with my while I hammered out the most severe of her problems I'll post some pics when I have a digital camera but yall should all take a bow for helping her (and me) to get this far.

*waits for the pandemonium to die down*

Now, back to business. Passing inspection and actually "roadworthy" are worlds apart, so there's still more than a little work that needs doing to get my little silver money eater up to snuff. I'll list problems in order of personal priority.

1. Fuel smell in the passenger compartment. My guess is that the tank has just gone south and needs replacement, considering the age of the vehicle. Still, I worry about these “little” things, seeing at the smell gives me a headache...and I smoke. BOOM!

Seriously though, if it could be something other than the tank, I’d rather know now and check that too than pay for the tank, install it, and still have the problem.

2. Test drove her to work today. Vibrations can be felt while driving. Doesn’t sound like a bad joint, but it sorta feels like one, so it could be. I can feel a rhythmic vibration while driving; most pronounced while at speed taking a turn. It speeds up and increases as speed increases, and is very noticeable when taking “hard” turns over 35 mph. Once you notice it, you can feel it even when driving straight. Maybe alignment, maybe rotors (though she’s seen a real live mechanic and they said the pads and brake rotors were okay) or it could still be air in the power steering system. It’s connected with wheel rotation, not engine, so I’m convinced it’s something in the rack and pinion or the wheels themselves.

Since many of yall have driven more than a combined total of nine miles in you 924’s and 944’s, I’m hoping you’ll have greater experience and will know what I’m dealing with instead of simply suspecting.

3. Gauges=a Very Bad Joke. Speedometer ticks like an old—broken—voltmeter, oil pressure gauge is locked into max pressure when I start the car, fuel says I’m running on empty after dropping ten gallons into her yesterday. The only two I trust are the tachometer and the engine temp (and those not very much).

How big a deal is it to replace those gauges? I need an honest estimate of how long it will take here to have a working dash. New sensors, new wiring, new what? This is something I can live without for a while, but I will “need” the car for a week or two while the Dirty Bird is laid up.

4. Timing belt. That needs to be changed for simple peace of mind but the mechanic I took it to seems to thing I have to tear out half the car to replace that belt. All told, it’s a $1,500 job if I let him, and I’d rather it be done right but…he’s reading from a tech manual. I’d like some experienced input. Things like: if the water pump is working fine, does it need replacement? What really needs to get the old heave ho when you replace the timing belt? Prohibitive cost puts this on the back burner for right now.

5. Oil leak. Gotta love em. Rear gasket so I’m in no big hurry to pull out and tear down half my engine to get at it. Am I better off taking her to a mechanic or is this one of those engines that will elt me work on her at home? Thus far, my experience with the car leads me to believe that the former is true.

6. Not sure what it is. Sounds almost like what I'd expect a bad clutch to sound like. Get her up to a certain speed and you'll hear a kinda grinding sound fromt he undercarrige. Upshift and it goes away. This..worries me.

As I understand it, these things are know for having a tight shifter. Mine's loose. Could be bad linkage. Could be related. Could be two seperate problems with 20 other little things in between. i dunno. You all might, so i figured it should go here

7. All the little things. New wipers, new tires, new weather-stripping, new bumper strips for the sides, new decals, new racing stripes, dash repair or replacement, new switch for the passenger side window (or maybe clean it and see if it’ll come back for me), and a partridge in a pear tree.

The biggest #7 comes from yall. You’ve been through the teething of these little money eaters before. If you’re willing, I’d appreciate you think back and try to remember when you first got yours on the road. What were those little things that turned into big problems down the road, a simple something I would oh so easily overlook or take as acceptable that makes me need to rebuild my engine 150k miles earlier than I should have needed to?

[SolReaver]

Wow, a laundry list that looked like mine used to.

First. #4 Timing belts. DO em! I just did mine. I replaced only the belts. It was cheap. You get what you pay for. Do it yourself. Do not remove the crank pulley and remove the tensioner at your discretion, however be aware they can be mothers to get back on depending on the type of tensioner. If it is the standard spring type as depicted in Clarks, you are probably ok to follow Clarks and remove it. Yes, Doing it by the book costs a lot. that is why it hasn't been done. The waterpump alone is the cost of a used Toyota.

Just the belts is not the "right way" to do it, however, It may protect you from catastrophic damages as old belts are time bombs ticking. Further, if you can't handle doing the timing belts yourself....Sell the car. That's right, sell it. You will not be happy and it will not be happy unless you spend lots of money, so what is the point?

5) oil leak. Rear gasket? are you talking about a rear main seal? If you are I got news my friend 'cause I just did mine. the rear main seal is only accessible if you drop your flywheel, after dropping your bell housing, after moving your propeller shaft, after dropping the transaxle, after disconnecting the CV's. Are you getting the picture yet?

now, if it is the rear Cam tower, piece of cake. Or the back of the oil pan, fine.

If it is a RMS, the cost to have someone else do the week long, miserable, grueling, grovel fest under your car for you will be....oh a couple o grand easily by the time you are done. Hec, while you are in there, do the clutch, it sounds funky to me.

Fuel smell. yea, that happens a lot. First check the sender unit. luckily it is accessable via a little hatch on the luggage deck (what passes for your trunk) fuel her up, drive her about and give it a sniff (while not smoking). Chances are good it will need to be resealed or something. IF not, you may have a bad hose or possibly a bad gas tank. Due to bad venting the tanks smetimes get little cracks on the top. the only way to be sure is to pull the tank for inspection and pressure test it (yea, did that too) after removing the transmisson, after disconnecting the CV's, yada yada... but try inspecting the lines you CAN get to first and the carbon canister (driver side fender behind wheel). In the mean time, crack the sunroof and no smoking in the car.


Clarks Garage is an invaluable resource. I respectfuly dissent with some of the methods advocated, but it remains smarter than me, so check it out.

Hey, Welcome! glad to have you aboard our happy little boat!

[ballysdad]

Just my 2 cents here...
1) Rear hatch seal may be leaking common fuel smell in cabin..
2) Check CV joints the boots tear and allow water dust ect into..Repack or replace.
3)Oil pressure stays at 5 oil pressure sending switch cheap replacement. Speedo cable I believe can be greased but not easy to get to. Fuel sending unit needs to be replaced for fuel guage.
4) Timing belt can't wait..one thing you will find is this is one of the most important jobs to keep her running. A busted belt with interference heads turns into $2500 job. Belts, rollers ect including H2O pump need to be replaced you can do yourself for cost of parts follow www.clarks-garage.com for detailed instruction.
5)rear oil seal leaking? Clutch need to come out 16 hrs + to pull out..need $ after that to replace clutch components and seal while you are there. Maybe just your sending unit is leaking..
6) check linkage under shifter..If ok check clutch inspection hole ..again clarks-garage if bad see #5
7)windows switches wired in series clean all switches one bad won't work may not be the passenger switch.. Dash replacement $1200 from justdashes.com/ $800 from 928leathershop.com.. Carpet or suede dash cover $40..Dash cap about $110.. your choice
Big problems down the road..Not replacing timining belt or checking for proper adjustment ( see parted cars on ebay).. Not paying attention to rubber disk on clutch deterating and getting stuck somewhere. Has limp tabs to get you home.. Not inspecting cv boots.. get dirty and possibly breakdown enough to snap while driving (see honda).. Most things can be done by you with patience the right tools and advise from others here that have already been in your shoes. A good set of shop manuals help and resourses like www.clarks-garage.com help. Pelican has most if not all parts you'll need..you bring the patience..Gl with your new toy

[ballysdad]

SolReaver types faster tahn me..Everything he said..

[S-G-Covin]

It'd be that pesky main rear seal Sol. Its a slow leak though. Aside from checking the oil regualrly and keeping her clean, it shouldn't hamper performance for a while as a commuter...and she won't be seeing a track any time soon :P

Thanks for the info on the timing belts. Its as I figured. I will NOT sell this car though. No compromise; its my childhood dream and I wants to keep my precious.

How "naughty" would I be to just do the belts peacemeal? Like I said, I want those changed to help me sleep at night (in my own bed, not the passenger seat of the tow truck if you get my drift).

[SolReaver]

It would be very naughty to just change the belts.....
That is why you must do it young peddawan...
Come join the dark side...

But seriously, doing belts alone IMHO is a LOT better than doing nothing.
You WILLL have to go in there again, but it buys you time and guards against a catastrophic fail.

I would do it!
But then again I am insane. (sorry folks I have documents to back me up on this one)

While you are in there, you have to inspect everything. If it is bad, you have to replace it. However, you might find that the components are "ok" or at least passable for a short time while you save up the dough for a full fledged do it all kinda proper belt job.



Sorry about th RMS, I lived with a pan under my precious for months. I used to joke that it "marked it's spot". these beasties hold 6 quarts, so if you don't mind the leak and it is small you can live with it. However, It is NOT going to get better on it's own.

Going in there for the RMS is essentially doing the clutch. you WILL have to replace about 600 dollars at a minimum of parts in the process and it could go to 2 grand without a problem.

OK, it is a project car. What I did with mine is to tear it all down by doing the cllutch and put it all back together. you are essentially rebuilding your car while groveling beneath it. Figure about 3 weeks worth of work. This is why it hasn't been done. You should do it yourself because having another person do it would be PROHIBITIVELY expensive. ( I couldn't afford that kind of money and neither could the PO)

[S-G-Covin]

Alright then. New "priority" list:

timing belt=ASAP. I'll lay her up this week again (honestly, she hasn't gone more than 9 mines in the last year since purchase. I've backstocked enough patience to keep me from killing her this month...hopefully). Followed quickly by clutch. I replaced the CV's while working on the power steering unit, But I can look at them again. Maybe...I didn't tighten them enough? Stillt hinking that vibration is wheel centric. Alignment or maybe balancing. New tires might clerar that up...for a while.

OFC, theres always the "do it right the first time" approach but...while I may not have the certifications like Sol, I can tell we're of like minds on some things.

Thanks I'll get back when theres more to say.

[SolReaver]

Don't worry about the mileage. Before the timing belts were done I had 15 miles on my car for a year. You are NOT suposed to even start the things without doing the belts.

Per the "old school" talking heads that occasionally help us out, you do NOTHING until the belts are done. We are already unworthy. As for just slipping in new belts. If you do it with the idea to go back and do it better you are still "fixing more than you break" which redeems us a bit.

This is why documentation is important. If you Knew how old the parts were, you could figure out what is likely to need replacement. If you don't know, the only thing you can do is to replace everything or make a judgment call. The difficulty is that if you guess wrong or the gremlins come a callin, it could be a 600 head job (or worse)

"followed quickly by the clutch" ha ha ha ha ha
There is nothing quick about doing the clutch. It sucks. It is a miserable, wretched, awful job that seems to take forever under the best circumstances. Have a good transmission jack ready, some Really good jackstands, a good place to work on it, and an open bar tab ready to go.

[S-G-Covin]

Pretty sure that 10-9320-121-M21 fits my 924S's engine (late 87). Hmm...170 bucks for a patch job versus not eating this month. I'll be naughty.

EDIT: ahhh...shucks. We didn't replace the CV joints. Just packed em, as I was oh so kindly reminded when I called up my helper. And after the ride home, I'm downright sure they're the culprit. Its too familiar for them not to be.

Add 944-332-038-01-M60 and multiply by 2. Plus packing Grease probably (Pelican you stingy stinkers ). I can rob Peter to pay Paul on those, since they're a necessity unless I want em to lock up me...would be a fun if frightening 1.302 seconds. Hmm...

Nah. Its not worth the other fun minutes and hours I'd lose out on by not replacing them.

PEL-CK-944-01N for the full clutch kit. That...will have to wait a month. Death threats can be PMed via the Pelican Parts Tech Forum. No Racist commentary please. Theft threats can be made in this thread--I want witnesses for those. A man has to have his priorities.

A little over $1600 sans shipping. Wow. Look at all the money I've saved.

And speaking of priorities...Looks like its another couple months of Beeferoni and Hot dogs (no. Wait. No hot dogs )...My Little Silver Money Eater gets to keep her name.

Thanks again.

[Arizona_928]

yeah i know the feeling i bought mine for christmas non running... got it going and have a click. "valves" and the PO replaced the clutch but put something in backwards and is non op..
my plan is just to drop the engine, and do the head, clutch, and the front engine seals... so right now i'm collecting all the parts, and counting the days.......

[SolReaver]

Covin:
Sorry 'bout the CV's

I think the CV's come with Grease. If not it is reasonably cheap. Use the good stuff.

About the clutch...Ya know, the pressure plates are usually in good shape. Everything else is usually junk or on it's way. The job is such a hassle that you really never want to do it again so you replace everything. This is the way to go. The only item in that kit that you Don't absolutly need for the job is the driven plate, but since you are replacing everything else....

AZ_Porschekid: I have heard you can get at the clutch by removing the engine. Take pictures and document the procedure please. About half way into the job I kept thinking there has to be a better way.

[S-G-Covin]

Originally Posted by SolReaver

Covin:
Sorry 'bout the CV's

I think the CV's come with Grease. If not it is reasonably cheap. Use the good stuff.

About the clutch...Ya know, the pressure plates are usually in good shape. Everything else is usually junk or on it's way. The job is such a hassle that you really never want to do it again so you replace everything. This is the way to go. The only item in that kit that you Don't absolutly need for the job is the driven plate, but since you are replacing everything else....

AZ_Porschekid: I have heard you can get at the clutch by removing the engine. Take pictures and document the procedure please. About half way into the job I kept thinking there has to be a better way.

Yeah. I would love some pics too. One of the reasons that the clutch will have to wait is that I want to just pull the engine while I do it. Getting that out of the way for a few weeks also means I can get a GOOD look at what alls going on with it (and gives me easy access to the RMS while I'm about it). Dependant on the shape its in, something else may make its way under the hood next year.

*wipes tomato off the side of his face* Who threw that?

[S-G-Covin]

Update.

I have bad news and good news. Bad news: I can't replace the CV joints. The good news: *smacks forehead on steering wheel* This car doesn't have CV joints.

But it still felt like a problem with the wheels so I bought new bearings Thursday. Was going to replace them Friday, started loosening the wheels and...the nuts were finger tight :/

I tightened those down and tested it a little. Then I "tested it" some more. Tightening the nuts down on the front end seems to have fixed the vibration problem...and then some!

Good God how well this Little Silver Money Eater handles! I haven't dropped the hammer down yet, but twisty's=thrill.

But...she's eating power steering fluid again. My hope is that its just taking a LOT of fluid to fill that massive cylinder. Yeah. And if wishes were fishes we'd all eat well.

Now that I can get a good listen without the wheels chopping at me, I can definatly hear what sounds like a throwout bearing on its way to Kaputsville. I think-why do I keep saying that? Me and that phrase just don't get along--there may be a bad roller on the timing belt as well. Surprise surprise; my priority list just became my "do not drive this car until you've replaced this stuff!" list.

Concern #2: Has been answered in another thread.

Thanks in advance.

[S-G-Covin]

Update: some graphite on the cable seems to have cleared up the speedo nodding at me. And the floater popped loose too; I have half a tank of gas

I also let my dad ride with me a ways and he seems to think I'm hearing things where the throwout bearing is concerned. He says, since its not slipping, and its not catching that I can wait as far as the clutch is concerned. Between him and my wallet, i'm sorta outnumbered in that department. While driving, I also couldn't hear the bearing I thought I heard yesterday. No ticks or nocks; engine compartment sounds good except for a loud PWS pump.

Dear ole dad is also suggesting I shouldn't make a heavy investment on the engine piecemeal. He's saying--POINT THAT TOMATO SOMEWHERE ELSE; I SAID"HE'S SAYING! HE'S SAYING!"--that it would probably be in my best interests to drive the car a little while, see how bad the oil leaks and other engine issues are, and yank the sucker to rebuild what needs rebuilding.

Thoughts? Is the old man finally going daffy or might he have something by waiting? He knows more about cars than I do, but this is the first Porsche for both of us.

[petrolhead611]

Loss of power steering fluid could be 1 or more of these:
1. reservoir cracked-wipe clean then recheck next day
2. hoses leaking.-same as above but inspect after driving
3. rack leaking-check rubber boots for accumulation of fluid.