water pump

FastDave · 10-06-2008, 07:46 AM

A new friend of mine has a 944 she wants to get road ready for her daughter. She says it needs a water pump. I found one on Ebay for $19! It's a part number 944.106.124.3R. Is this the right one? I checked the PP list and it didn't show up. Are there other things I should look for while looking at repairing this for her? I've rebuilt (or helped) 3.2, 3.6 and an old 1.8 I think in a 356 which I know are none like this water cooled engine.

hpservertech · 10-06-2008, 08:36 AM

Do you want to tell her to get a USED water pump? Not a good idea.

Water pump, timing/balance belts, mayb the front end seals. Oil change and then see where your at after that. Expect in the range of $500-$600 for the above parts.

John_AZ · 10-06-2008, 08:47 AM

Hay ! Thanks for the tip.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__new-Porsche-924S-944-water-pump-WP-9444_W0QQitemZ110296661036QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ 20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2865QQcmdZViewIte m?hash=item110296661036&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Just kidding.

That is the starting bid. What year 944 does you GF have?
You can buy a rebuilt WP with a warranty from $85. Do you want to take a chance with an unknown pump on her car and have to suffer with the consequences if it fails?

I can say that if you begin to replace the WP for her, you will be getting into a LONG period of continuing work on the car. The WP is the perverbial "Tip of the Iceberg"

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S
1979 924 + 1977.5 924 + 914 1.7 + MG Midget +++ gone, not forgotten

FastDave · 10-06-2008, 09:26 AM

Well it would involve my passion for two things and maybe prove worth the effort! lol She's almost the opposite of the girl I "was" dating. Anyway, I'm just doing the preliminary investigations for now to see what I might want to check out while I'm still checking her out!
I don't want to risk using a used water pump.
Can you tell by the part number if I found the right one or not?

John_AZ · 10-06-2008, 11:37 AM

~Dave,

Upon not finding an easy answer I Googled 944 106 124 3R:

[PDF] Remanufactured Parts 1963-2005File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
944.106.124.3R. eingegossen. 2,5LTR. 1 M 44.01-10. M 44.40. M 44.50-52. Rücknahme:. 951.106.021.10. (1). 944 106 921 AX Wasserpumpe. mit. Einbauteile ...
https://techinfo.porsche.com/techinfo/pdf/de/catalogues/D_ATK_KATALOG.pdf - Similar pages

If you have an understanding of printed German, this may help. I would guess the pump number you have is a variation of the 944 pump. Different rebuilding characteristics involved.

An answer to your final question would be easier if you knew the year of the 944. Most use the "upgraded pump" the the belt guide. Let us know.

BTW, once the daugher has the car, the vehicle life span deminishes by the week.

GL
John_AZ

924Sman · 10-06-2008, 02:55 PM

This is one part that one should go top dollar on. My advice is to buy a turbo pump here at Pelican! The NA pumps are made by Laso and are not too good, the turbo WP's are made by another mfg'er and are stouter.

On another note.....women and shopping.....they want the top dollar stuff so don't by cubic zirconium when they need diamonds!!!!.....trust me if she has well trained she will know the difference, how is a mystery but she will!!.....go with a 951 WP..

Dal

FastDave · 10-06-2008, 03:45 PM

Ok, she says it's either an '86 or '88... why it's not an '87...???... I don't know? lol And I agree she would probably know the dif between a cheap water pump as well as she would know a cheap diamond! lol
Thanks

bleu951 · bleu951's Garage

The water pump is the same for either year. There are a few other items that are different though, so you need to know before you buy any parts.

Front Engine re-seal parts list for 1987 Porsche 944/951 and later 8 valve 2.5 liter engines

Camshaft

1 each O-ring 999.701.602.40
1 each Woodruff key (optional) 900.117.045.00
1 each O-ring (flat mylar washer) 944.105.321.00
1 each Spacer 928.105.139.04
1 each Seal 999.113.349.40
1 each Bolt (optional) 999.510.022.08
1 each Toothed roller 944.105.631.04
1 each Smooth roller 944.105.241.03
1 each Rubber seal 928.105.184.00
1 each Locknut N .022.149.0
1 each Washer N .011.527.12
1 each Belt 944.105.157.04

Crankshaft

1 each Seal 999.113.331.50
1 each Sleeve (oil pump drive) 944.107.161.02
1 each O-ring 999.707.283.40
1 each Woodruff key (optional) 900.117.036.00

Balance shafts

1 each Seal (upper, cw rotation) 999.113.282.40
1 each Seal (lower, ccw rotation) 999.113.281.40
2 each Spacer 928.105.139.02
2 each O-ring (mylar, same as cam) 944.105.321.00
2 each O-ring 999.701.652.40
2 each Woodruff key (optional) N 012.708.2
1 each Tensioner roller 944.102.025.07
1 each Smooth roller 944.102.277.06
2 each Locknuts N .022.149.0
2 each Washers N .011.527.12
1 each Belt 944.102.219.02

Water pump

1 each Water Pump 951.106.021.10
1 each Water Pump Gasket 944.106.132.04
1 each Block off plate (NA only) 944.106.313.00
1 each O-ring 999.707.283.40
2 each Bolt 6 x 20mm (optional) N .014.704.1
2 each Washer (optional) N .011.524.7
1 each Thermostat 944.106.019.00
1 each Support Washer 900.234.160.00
1 each T-stat O-ring 944.106.929.08 or
944.106.929.05 depends on water pump
The two items below are only required if the car has never been updated or the parts are damaged or missing
1 each Guard rail (for updated pump) 944.105.210.01
2 each Lock nuts (for guard rail) 999.084.092.02

Notes:

1. Spacers and oil pump sleeve should be replaced if they have wear grooves, or burrs which could damage a new seal. Use some fine
grade scotch brite to clean up the old ones, but replace them if in doubt.
2. The front crank seal is prone to leaking if not installed perfectly. I use an old crank gear and oil pump sleeve that I honed the center bore of to make it easy to slide on and off the crank, and use these two as spacers with the crank bolt to press the seal in squarely until flush with the oil pump face.
3. The balance shaft front housings must be removed to properly reseal them.
4. Oil seals and o–rings must be thoroughly lubricated before installation.

You will need a flywheel lock, pin spanner, a tension gauge and various sockets/wrenches. There are some around that loan out "The Tool" to check belt tension. Where are you located in the USA? Maybe someone lives close by that can lend a hand.

cnanetwork · 10-07-2008, 06:18 PM

I saw that same $19 water pump. Found this site with German information. Wouldn't completely download. Maybe you try: https://techinfo.porsche.com/techinfo/pdf/de/catalogues/D_ATK_KATALOG.pdf - Also, keep in mind the pump is just the beginning of MANDATORY repairs once you are in there - seals, gears, belts... When you have 5 ya know what can go wrong with these!
Curt

FastDave · 10-09-2008, 05:39 AM

OK, this is going to be great. I really appreciate everyone's help! The VIN is WPOAA0945GN452420. We started it yesterday. It started fine with no problem. I checked the oil before starting it... no signs of moisture & oil was clean. I disconnected the upper radiator hose to watch for the antifreeze to pump thru while it was running. Vapor appeared first and then a very small amount of fluid ran thru. The temp gauge barely got to the first marker after about 4 or 5 minutes. Neither fan kicked on.
Should I check the fans or fan relays next?
Teach me... PLEASE! Thanks!

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

I'd check the relays, but the switch was the culprit on mine. But then again my fans wouldn't shut off or turn on at the right times EVER. I put in a low temp thermostat and thermostatic fan switch and it cured my problems. But i'd test the fan switch.

FastDave · 10-09-2008, 06:43 AM

is there a tech site I can go to and scan some schematics or see some pics where the relays and switches are located? I hate electrical issues....

What about the small amount of water...

924Sman · 10-09-2008, 07:06 AM

1st bar...It did not get hot enough to kick the fans on. You now may have to bleed the cooling system now beings you opened it up by removing the radiator hose while running so air most likely got into the system. Bleed it to be certain then go for a ride and get the car up to temp, atleast for 10+ minutes then see if the coolant system is doing it's job. If it gets too hot the fans then should kick on. If the coolant gauge shows hot and no fans turn on then go to the electrical portion of the program.

Dal

FastDave · 10-09-2008, 09:37 AM

Okay, I'm starting to get the picture... I don't know enough to do what I'm trying to do... ??? : ( How do I bleed "this" system??? How "hot" is too hot for this engine??? What year model is this car??? What temp should the fans kick in??? How do I check coolant flow without removing the upper radiator hose??? Teach me... PLEASE!!!

nynor · 10-09-2008, 09:49 AM

the search function is your friend. all this has been gone over dozens of times. also, see www.clarks-garage.com.

924Sman · 11:09 AM

The "G" in your VIN is the year of make....yours is 1986...."H" is 1987 "J" is 1988 and so on. It is also an USA spec car not Euro.

Now to bleed the system....turn on the heater lever to full heat, raise the front end just a tad to allow air to flow towards the radiator. Start the engine and on the water hose housing located above the WP just to the right of the fuel damper/rail.... there is a 13mm hex head bolt, this is the bleed screw, careful it is soft metal and breaks very easily. The screw has a hole bored into the threads to allow air to escape wiithout having to remove the screw entirely. When tightening just get it snug (do not crank it down hard as a regular bolt when tightening or you will break it off in the housing). ....Clean the water tank neck and while running at temp blow into the tank to aid air to escape, once all coolant is streaming out of the bleed screw the air is gone, close the screw. Refill the tank back to normal level shown on the tank and go for a ride!

To answer the coolant flow check you will see flow by the coolant pouring out the bleed screw. If no flow then you either still have air in the system or a WP issue/possible blocked radiator or lack of enough coolant in the system.

DO NOT use tap water.....distilled only!!! Use aluminum safe coolant only!!

Do read up on Clark's as nynor mentioned, this will make what I said easier to follow.

Do not be surprised if you must bleed the system several times, once usually is not enough but it can be done.....patience is key here.

Too hot will go to 3 bar or higher and in that range the fans should kick on especially after shutdown or at idle. This also depending on your location and temp/altitude/humidity you are in and the integrity of the radiator/hoses and heater core and their condition.

Dal

bleu951 · bleu951's Garage

The white lines on the temperature gauge indicate 80 degrees C for the lower line and the upper is 100 C, which is boiling. The normal operating temperature is between these two white lines. The gauge is not damped or "normalized" like most other cars. So you will notice that it fluctuates with ambient temperature, and running conditions. It should typically be around 80 - 90.

FastDave · 10-10-2008, 07:32 AM

That's what I love about this website! You guys are the greatest... not greatest like the Elton John song refers to... lol... but greatest like best friends with similar interests. Thanks a bunch. I'll keep you updated in my findings. Have a great weekend! ; )