Burning coolant

[MadisonT]

Turned on the car the other day, forgot something inside and let it run while i went to get it...went around the car and BAM;

I have white smoke in my exhaust and coolant in the tailpipe. Checked the coolant level and it is almost at the minimum meaning this must have been going on for at least a week.

There is no coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant so i can't quite decide where to go from here. Any suggestions? (crosses fingers its not the head gasket...)

[Techno Duck]

More than likely a blown head gasket.. is this a turbo or non turbo model? Mileage on the car?

Pull the spark plugs and see if they are wet. Also you may notice the coolant system becomes excessively pressurized when the engine is running. Does the car misfire at all on cold starts (after cooling off from normal operating temp)?

[John_AZ]

Keep your fingers crossed.
Head gasket.
I called my 1987 924S on startup the mosquito fogger until I changed it.

You could check your spark plugs. Remove one at a time an if the tip looks like it has been steamed clean this is your problem.

If you wanted to continue further checks, get a "leak down tester" from Harbor Freight ~$40
I did this as well as got a coolant pressure tester ------just to make sure.

This is actually an easy repair. If you decide to do this yourself, there are many posts that address this and the parts needed. Cost will be about $600 to $800 for parts and machine work and while you are at it stuff.

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[MadisonT]

woops, forgot to add that info... 1986 944 N/A with 215000 clicks

it hasn't misfired on early morning starts yet although it has been a little bit of a rough idle until it warms up. I'll be checking the spark plugs over lunch.

Would I be able to see any pressure in the coolant system just from the coolant level? or am I having to look elsewhere.

[MadisonT]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Keep your fingers crossed.
Head gasket.
I called my 1987 924S on startup the mosquito fogger until I changed it.

You could check your spark plugs. Remove one at a time an if the tip looks like it has been steamed clean this is your problem.

If you wanted to continue further checks, get a "leak down tester" from Harbor Freight ~$40
I did this as well as got a coolant pressure tester ------just to make sure.

This is actually an easy repair. If you decide to do this yourself, there are many posts that address this and the parts needed. Cost will be about $600 to $800 for parts and machine work and while you are at it stuff.

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

So if one of the tips looks steamed, it is more than likely the head gasket? I've also read that a compression test would help along with leak down, do you suggest one over the other or do both?

and ya, i would be doing it myself.

[Techno Duck]

Pressure will be evident when you squeeze the upper radiator hose. Even at full operating temp it should have some give in it. Sometimes as a symptom of a blown head gasket the hose will be rock hard.

At 215k, i would say more than likely the head gasket went due to age / mileage.

As John said, its not the end of the world. Not terribly difficult to do if your a reasonably competent wrench and only requires one or two special tools..mainly the belt tensioner.

[Techno Duck]

Originally Posted by MadisonT

So if one of the tips looks steamed, it is more than likely the head gasket? I've also read that a compression test would help along with leak down, do you suggest one over the other or do both?

and ya, i would be doing it myself.

Steam cleaned plug tips will definatley point towards a blown headgasket. I would do a leak down over a compression test. Compression test does not always turn up a problem. Case in my point, when the h/g on my '87 n/a went it did not show up on a compression test..but clearly was blown.

The reason i mention misfiring on startup, is when you let the car warm up to normal temp, then shut it off for the night, the cooling system is still pressurized from the heat (this is normal). With no pressure in the cylinders, coolant now pushes past the blown out section of the headgasket into the cylinder until the car cools off (or you depressurize the cooling system). With coolant pooled in the cylinder and starting the car up, it will misfire until all the coolant burns out of the cylinder. If you ever get this misfire, shut the car off imediatley and pull the plugs. One or two of them will look wet and that will tell you which cylinder(s) are leaking.

This is just 1 of many tests.. but keep in mind not all tests will give a conclusive answer. My car with the blown gasket had no white smoke out the exhaust or any other symptoms other than the misfire on start up (car drove fine otherwise). A leak down test is really the only way to know for sure without a doubt. But honestly coolant in the exhaust pipe is enough of a factor to say without a doubt its probably the head gasket.

[MadisonT]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

Steam cleaned plug tips will definatley point towards a blown headgasket. I would do a leak down over a compression test. Compression test does not always turn up a problem. Case in my point, when the h/g on my '87 n/a went it did not show up on a compression test..but clearly was blown.

The reason i mention misfiring on startup, is when you let the car warm up to normal temp, then shut it off for the night, the cooling system is still pressurized from the heat (this is normal). With no pressure in the cylinders, coolant now pushes past the blown out section of the headgasket into the cylinder until the car cools off (or you depressurize the cooling system). With coolant pooled in the cylinder and starting the car up, it will misfire until all the coolant burns out of the cylinder. If you ever get this misfire, shut the car off imediatley and pull the plugs. One or two of them will look wet and that will tell you which cylinder(s) are leaking.

This is just 1 of many tests.. but keep in mind not all tests will give a conclusive answer. My car with the blown gasket had no white smoke out the exhaust or any other symptoms other than the misfire on start up. A leak down test is really the only way to know for sure without a doubt. But honestly coolant in the exhaust pipe is enough of a factor to say without a doubt its probably the head gasket.

Thanks a ton. I'll be checking her out tonight i guess. Maybe I'll have to set it up on stands for a whole week and do my power steering reseal as well before it gets out on the road again

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by MadisonT

Thanks a ton. I'll be checking her out tonight i guess. Maybe I'll have to set it up on stands for a whole week and do my power steering reseal as well before it gets out on the road again

Compression test tip #1--remove the DME relay to aviod washing the cyl with a lot of gas.

Power Steering tip #1---Why waste time with a $70 reseal kit when for about $200 you can get a LLT (limited life time warranty) rebuilt unit from AutoZone.
Power Steering tip #2--Get tie rod ends if the rubber is cracked
Power Steering tip #3--www.Clarks-Garage.com has the best PS writeup
Power Steering tip #4--DO The head first

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S 58K--New Rebuilt PS rack 8/2008
1987 924S 112K--Head Gasket replacement 2/2007

[MadisonT]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Compression test tip #1--remove the DME relay to aviod washing the cyl with a lot of gas.

Power Steering tip #1---Why waste time with a $70 reseal kit when for about $200 you can get a LLT (limited life time warranty) rebuilt unit from AutoZone.
Power Steering tip #2--Get tie rod ends if the rubber is cracked
Power Steering tip #3--www.Clarks-Garage.com has the best PS writeup
Power Steering tip #4--DO The head first

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S 58K--New Rebuilt PS rack 8/2008
1987 924S 112K--Head Gasket replacement 2/2007

Power steering tips:
1-- did not know that, but I already ordered the seal kit so...
2-- already done!
3-- i'll be using it along with rennbay for some extra visuals
4-- good idea

[John_AZ]

While Rennbay is adequate for basic information, I would also look at www.arnnworx.com for additional (dis)encouragement. http://www.arnnworx.com/SteeringRack.htm

It is good to see you have the tie rod ends. Also replace the fluid reservoir as the filter clogs ~$20.
I also replaced the fluid reservoir to pump line with the "new" short version.
Our sponsor, Pelican Parts has them in stock.



GL
John_AZ

[MadisonT]

Thanks for the additional resources John. For the minor cost i will be replacing that hose and the reservoir.

Originally Posted by John_AZ

While Rennbay is adequate for basic information, I would also look at www.arnnworx.com for additional (dis)encouragement. http://www.arnnworx.com/SteeringRack.htm

The only thing I am concerned about here is the possibility of needing to machine the main shaft. How necessary do you think this really is? I am also wondering what the best way to clean the shaft is without worrying about particulates left behind. A bottle of degreaser and micro-cloth should be ok?

[thekidd]

White smoke does sound like a head gasket

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by MadisonT

The only thing I am concerned about here is the possibility of needing to machine the main shaft. How necessary do you think this really is? I am also wondering what the best way to clean the shaft is without worrying about particulates left behind. A bottle of degreaser and micro-cloth should be ok?

Unable to help further on the machine work. Prior to removal, you could flush with fresh PS fluid to begin the process. Final cleanup uncertain. Good Q's to post.

John_AZ