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87 944
 
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Clutch replacement

Just went to a local car repair and they said if i supplied the clutch it would be about 800 dollars to install. Is this a decent price or should i look for better.
Old 11-04-2008, 07:19 AM
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That is a good price if the shop you got the quote from has experience with 944 clutch replacements. Unless you know these guys really well and have a good relationship with them, I would be careful. I would not supply my own parts unless you really trust them because if something fails or goes wrong with the job it will be because of the "inferior" parts that you supplied. If they have recent experience with 944 clutch replacements, they should be able to quote the job including the parts.

A.J.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:09 AM
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87 944
 
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The guy said he had never done a clutch on a 944 ill take your advice and ask for another quote and see how much they charge for the clutch. thanks
Old 11-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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Here is a clutch procedure to become familiar with the job. Your 1987 944 (please put this in your signature line --user cp above) will take 12-14 hours with a good mechanic. As stated in the article a pro can do a NA in 8-9 hours with a lift and lots of experience.
http://home.hvc.rr.com/nine44/Kehr%20Clutch%20Replacement.txt
OR
http://www.924.org/techsection/ClutchReplacement.htm

$800 is a good/fantastic price unless he "finds" more problems and boosts his price.
$1200-$1400 is frequent quote. A new mechanic will "break" things like the flywheel sensors and charge extra for replacing the flywheel seal and resurfacing the flywheel (Balance PP + flywheel or you will get some vibration).

Make sure the quote is complete for all possibilities.

GL
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:01 AM
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any recommendations for a new clutch?
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87 944
Old 11-04-2008, 11:23 AM
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There are 3 piece clutch kits (disc, PP, TO) from $475 (incl ship) to $605 from our sponsor, Pelican Parts (ship free). There are small parts needed like pilot bearing, fork shaft needle bearings (2), guild tube (possible cracks in old) exhaust gaskets (2), new trans fluid-go redline or swepco, heater control valve (check for white deposit on shaft-it leaks on clutch) new flywheel seal, flywheel bolts, and on. SO you may want to get all the parts from our sponsor.

Look at current threads on clutch topics as well.

GL
John_AZ
Old 11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
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800$ for a clutch hes never changed? no thanks


he lowballed you, wait for him to start changing it and realize hes got double the hours he counted for, ontop of parts he will break and the price will jack right up. i was quoted like 10 hours labour + parts, which comes out to 1200$ easy.


and like aj951 said you will get NO guarantee on his job if you supply your own parts, so just dont.
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:56 PM
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he quoted 16 hours
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:44 AM
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clutch stuff happens

OK, IF (big if there) he can actually do the clutch for 800, that is not so bad. The lowest price that I could get was 600 after shopping around a LOT. I finally did the clutch myself. There is a lot to go wrong as the job is pretty big. One stripped bolt or bad part and the whole thing can go south on you. I used to be a mechanic for a living and although I would never do this, some mechanics will "lowball" you just to get you into the shop and then the price changes when your car has been reduced to a heap of parts that you hope are all there and will all go back together. AAMCO used to be notorious for this.

Therefore....... have a written contract (not written by him of course)

Mechanics working in a shop are encouraged to get them in and get them out quickly, which can be a recipie for disaster when you need to be meticulous.

Check for certifications and PLEASE call the BBB to be sure the man is on the level.

First time mechanics may take 30 hours or more to do this job right assuming the usual BS hits the fan. Plan on replacing pretty much everything while you are in there, including the shift fork shaft and bearings (usually toast) Our sponsor has a pretty good price on the full kit (reccomended) IF he has a problem using a full kit from pelican, move on, he is crooked.

Additionally, there are a lot of "while you are in there" things to do, like possibly...re-doing the fuel lines above the gas tank and pressure testing said tank while the TX is out. notching the bell housing, cleaning, heat shield work, etc...

On the off chance he is on the level and wants to "cut his teeth" on a Porsche, work out the details and go for it as I would have gladly paid 800 to not engage in the 2 week long grovel fest that was my clutch job. It is a pity though...If you DON'T do it yourself, you loose some bragging rights, but, after actually DOING this job, I understand.
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Last edited by SolReaver; 11-06-2008 at 07:07 PM..
Old 11-06-2008, 06:53 PM
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first time is a bit of a PIA
if you know some of the tricks you can knock is out much faster
i just did one on my race car last weekend
I've done them in under 3 hours
i've also had some take all day
if you decide to do it yourself, email me and I'll give you my phone number and some tips
Old 11-06-2008, 08:58 PM
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dangerous-

when you did yours last weekend, did you do the whole kit (clutch, pressure plates, bearings) or just the clutch disc itself?

I'm thinking the clutch disc by itself isn't that bad, you don't have to pull out the pivot pin and you can just separate the bellhousing from the motor by undoing the 9 flywheel bolts.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:39 PM
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i just swapped my racing clutch and lightened flywheel from my old engine to the new one.

you still need to remove the housing to get the presssure plate off in order to get the disc out....and you need to align it when you put it back in

the 9 flywheel bolts don't connect the housing to the motor...they connect the flywheel to the crankshaft. 12pt 12mm torqued to 66 ft/lbs If I recall correctly

the bellhousing is connected to the motor with 4 bolts....but the pivot pin has to be removed before these 4 bolts or the pin will bind and you'll never get it out, and the bellhousing will not separate from the motor

The pivot pin isn't that hard if it's clean. most street cars don't get serviced that often so they can get real gummed up. on the opposite side of the bell housing you can look into the opening and see where the pivot pin stops against a perpendicular pin that is pressed into the case. That pin keeps th pivot pin from going in too far. spray some brake cleaner on the pivot pin if it's too gummed up to come out. when it evaporates, spray you favorite penetrating oil and grab a long slim punch. place the tip on the end of the pivot pin (not on the limit pin of course) and give it a couple of taps with your hammer. it'll come out.

Last edited by dangerous; 11-06-2008 at 10:50 PM..
Old 11-06-2008, 10:48 PM
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No I mean you can get the bellhousing off without taking that pin out by reaching through the starter hole and undoing the 9 hex head bolts by turning the motor and doing 1 at a time. This leaves the flywheel on the crank but undoes the ring gear/ pressure plate And then you can pull the bell housing off and take the clutch out. I did this as my lever pin was rusted in solid. See photo below:

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Old 11-06-2008, 11:15 PM
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no kidding???!!!! Wow, that's pretty creative, I never tried that one.

Did you come up with that or did somebody tell you about it?

Ah I misunderstood you, yeah....you're right, there are 9 of those 6mm allen heads on the ring gear. When I read 9 bolts, for some reason the image of the black 12pts popped into by brain.

Pretty clever, Schumi....pretty clever.....

For most people I'd say if you're going in that deep, might as well replace the pressure plate and turn the flywheel too. That pin can be a stubborn little bastage, but if you tap it from the other end, you'll get it.
Old 11-07-2008, 07:45 AM
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I think someone on this board mentioned it.

If you are wanting to risk it, you could unbolt the starter, undo the flywheel bolts, unbolt the bell housing, unbolt the torque tube, slide the tranny back and take the bellhousing down and slip in and align a new clutch, then reassemble. And I think I could pull this off in about 3 hours with an appropriate amount of jackstands and lifts.

Of course the pressure plate should be resurfaced.

What part of the flywheel needs resurfaced? The part where it bolts to the ring gear/plate? I wouldn't think that would make a lot of difference.

Edit: I am interested in all the options here because my red '87 has the rubber center clutch and needs it replaced. I am looking to just resurface the pressure plate and install a new spring centered clutch disk. I'm not seeing a reason to totally replace the pressure plate or bearings. As long as whatever spring centered clutch I buy is compatible with the old plate (I would assume so)

Some of us cannot afford 700$ kits right now. A $300 clutch disc with a $50 resurfacing is much more affordable for me..
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Last edited by Schumi; 11-07-2008 at 08:28 AM..
Old 11-07-2008, 08:23 AM
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What mileage do you have on the "87? A high mileage car should have the rear main seal replaced as a part of due caution.

The flywheel bolts stretch and should be replaced but this has been debated as well. If the flywheel has disc burn marks or a few deep grooves, the flywheel should be resurfaced just like a disc brake rotor when new pads are installed to prevent future problems.

The basic 3 piece Sachs kit on EBay has been $450+$25 ship. Yes, with all other parts needed the final cost is closer to $750.

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S 58.5K Clutch 2007
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:42 AM
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I this the track car or the street car?

$700 sounds a bit much to me
might be the going rate, haven't looked at 'em lately
but I think a stage 1 Spec racing clutch is around that price
I would expect that a decent Sachs kit would be closer to the $300-$400 range

sure, You can skip stuff and get by
I'm not going to lie, I do it all the time
for the same reasons too, saveing a few bucks
but more often than not, I end up regretting it I end up going back in and doing things again

if you have a rubber center clutch, you already know it's probably original
my original rubber center clutch in my street car lasted 16 years
16 years is a lot of wear of things, so there's a good chance you'll be back in there in the not too distant future. Can be a tough decision, but it's up to you.

If you want my recommendation, here it is:

shop around for a new Sachs kit and note the best price you can find. Show around for the best price to resurface your flywheel. total up the cost of doing the job right and determine if it's in your budget. If not, and you're in a pinch because you need to get the car back on the road, then consider the short-cut path but plan on doing it again correctly as soon as you can scrape up enough loot for the parts. Doing the job twice means you'll be better at it the second time, it'll go a little faster....so it's not the worst thing in the world. But if you're doing the shortcut route, I wouldn't buy a new disc and stick it in there unless you really had no other option....you're throwing money away. If you send me an email next week , I'll look into my old parts inventory (and call some of my 944 buddies) and see if I can find a used spring center disc with some life left on it. If I find one, you can have it.....if my one of my buddies has one, I'll ask what he wants for it and let you know, but it'll be dirt cheap.

eddie119@yahoo.com

PorschenewB- I think we've hijacked your thread a bit, and I apologize for that, but hopefully you benefit in some way from this dialog.
Old 11-07-2008, 09:24 AM
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Yea this is my street car. The rubber is done- I'm hitting limp home tabs now. I need the car back on the road next spring.

The prices here on pelican is actually 600 for the sachs 3 piece kit. I have seen just the friction disc for less than 300 plus another 50$ for resurfacing. I don't see the reasoning in a new pressure plate when resurfacing the old one should do the same thing, right? And I see no reason why the throw out bearing would be going bad or would go bad in the immediate future.

I was hoping the track car would have a spring clutch in it so I wouldn't have to do this same game on it. Unfortunately, as you can see in that picture I posted above, it also has the rubber clutch.

I started the track car project when the red car was doing great. Now all of a sudden it needs a clutch and so does the track car. I can't afford to continue to prep the track car and do two clutches. Things really all went wrong at the same time there.

I'll keep you in mind about the used spring clutches. I have no reservations on throwing something used in the track car and testing on it as it will get torn down and rebuilt quite often.
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:14 AM
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bearing

hey Schumi: I gotta disagree with you on the sliding the transmission back thing. Remember that the torque tube has those flagy thingies and you have to rotate it to get it to slide back. This means the shift linkage and the bolts TT to TX have to be removed. Besides, Unless you butcher the wheel well there is just not enough room to slide er back and how on earth do you slide a several hundred pound chunk of metal when it is bolted in??



the flywheel is a "stepped" flywheel and 2 surfaces need to be trued, the mating surface and the friction surface. Most machinists can handle it and it is no biggie.

I am as cheap as anyone (probably cheaper than most) but, I would not chance re-using a throwout bearing unless it was in really good shape with really low mileage.

As for the pressure plate, yea a bit of machining and you could prob re-use that. On the off chance yours is no good, I have 3 good used ones I can let go for the cost of shipping and beer. The rationale quoted for the PP replace is that the springs wear out. I guess that is correct, but they sure feel springy enough to me and if the fingers are good, well It is your party...

Dangerous: That is mitey white of you to help out another Porsche owner. I looked into a used friction disk as well. Remember that even a worn one can be re-built and that could save some bucks.

3 hours to do the clutch? that I have GOT to see to believe.


We could all use a break from the high cost of clutch parts. there was a thread on rennlist where someone is looking for a crossover/countermatch, but they don't seem to have found one yet.

John, Correct, The RM seal and the pinion bearing should be done while you are in there as well as the bolts. The final cost is a bit higher by the time all is said and done.
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There may be nothing quite as expensive as a cheap Porsche: Ruby Red 84 928S : White 87 924s 2.5L NA (Blinky) M44/07-43H10676 spoiler delete - 046/2B - Belts 9/12, Clutch and OC seals 8/08 andd Red 94 Del Sol: Please put your Make, Model and Year in Sig. Try not to break more than you fix.
Old 11-07-2008, 05:19 PM
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When I mean slide back the tranny I meant disconnect it from the torque tube, slide it out, then rotate the torque tube back to clear the tabs. Like Clark's says to.

I did this entire disassembly on my silver track car in less than an hour and a half, but that was with the exhaust already off the car.
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Old 11-07-2008, 09:40 PM
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