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87 924S Gas tank removal

Have a gas smell when tank is full, discovered that a gas vent line is leaking but can't get to both ends to replace the vent line with out removing the gas tank. Plan is to remove the tank and replace all the lines. Need to remove trans-axle to remove tank. What should I watch out for, I have the Haynes books but have not worked on the rear of the car to date. Would like tips on trans-axle removal and separating the torque tube from trans-axle plus anything else that I don't yet know enough to ask.
Old 11-24-2008, 06:46 AM
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Hi, first pull your hatch carpet and make sure the gasket is good at the sending unit. I have also heard that some of the 944 tanks will crack at the top over time if yours has a steel tank?
Old 11-24-2008, 07:36 AM
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Gas tank removal 924S?

GL
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:45 AM
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87 924S gas tank removal

thanks for the replies

1. I did pull back the carpet, removed the rear window, pulled back the interior by the gas fill pipe and removed the cover over the fill hose. Once it was all opened up I identified that it is actually a vent hose that is leaking. I could see where it was oozing fuel. So have identified the exact hose.

2. Thanks for the link on removing the fuel tank. I checked it out and it has several helpful tips.

I'm actually a bit more worried about disconnecting the half shafts, the torque tube and tranny removal. From reading the Haynes manual it does not seem too bad but I figured I would ask around in this forum to get any tips and things to watch out for before I learned what not to do, first hand.

If anyone has done this and found anything to watch out for it would be great to get a heads up.

thanks again for taking time to reply.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo Dawg View Post
thanks for the replies
I'm actually a bit more worried about disconnecting the half shafts, the torque tube and tranny removal. From reading the Haynes manual it does not seem too bad but I figured I would ask around in this forum to get any tips and things to watch out for before I learned what not to do, first hand.

If anyone has done this and found anything to watch out for it would be great to get a heads up.

thanks again for taking time to reply.
From Jim Pasha--Clutch replacement--Excellent article.
http://www.924.org/techsection/ClutchReplacement.htm

"Now you can go to the rear of the car and start removing the transaxle. Disconnect the reverse switch wiring., then the electronic speed sensor - if your car is so equipped. Using a new allen socket or a 12-point socket in very good condition, loosen and remove the CV-joint bolts from the transaxle end of the axleshafts.

Disconnect the shift rod from the cup receptacle on the transaxle cross-shaft. This has a safety wire on the bolt and should be rewired during the reassembly process, so note the direction of the wire on the bolt and how it is twisted. There is an access panel to the driveshaft adapter. Remove the panel and using a light to illuminate the area, loosen the two allen bolts on the coupling collar. The driveshaft must be rotated to reach both bolts. When loosened, slide the collar back onto the transaxle input shaft.

The next procedure is a bit tricky and must be followed in sequence. Support the transaxle with a jack. The pictures show a built-for-purpose transmission jack with chains to hold the transaxle. Position the jack under the ring-and-pinion area of the transaxle and raise the jack to the point where it takes some pressure off of the transaxle mounts.

Remove the bolts that hold the mount to the floor of the luggage compartment. This is actually a welded member of the chassis. Once the bolts are removed, lower the jack slightly - but not too much. Now remove the bolts from the transaxle bellhousing and the driveshaft adapter. There is not a lot of room behind the transaxle to move it away from the driveshaft. Lower the transaxle slightly to break the bond, then remove the plastic tube that the shift rod passes through at the transaxle bellhousing. As this transaxle was originally designed for a front-wheel-drive car, the shift linkage has to pass through a hole in the bellhousing to reach the shift cross-shaft. The plastic keeps dirt and grunge from getting into the bellhousing area.

The transaxle must come straight down on its way out. The chains on the transaxle jack are to keep the freed transaxle from slipping off of the jack. The transaxle can sometimes hang up on the plastic tube, which will prevent it from being dropped straight down. Some fiddling should allow you to get it free. Once this is done, the transaxle can be dropped down and pulled out from under the car. Do not drop the driveshaft in any of these steps. Lower it gently and let it rest on the torsion-bar tube."

NOTE: I have found the tabs at each end of the plastic tube should be down when you replace the transaxle-John_AZ
NOTE: You need QUALITY hex for coupler and 12 point wrench for CV bolts or you will strip the pan head bolts. I think the coupler is a 10MM. Clean out the bolts with a pick to get the crud out first.

GL
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:17 PM
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The most helpful thing I did when I took my transaxle out the last time was to throw away the plastic tube which supposedly protects the shift linkage.

As far as I can see, the tube doesn't really do anything that useful. And the way it sits, it really makes it a pain to get the transaxle in or out.

So I just tossed mine last time, and it made it 100% easier to get the trans reinstalled.

The other trouble point was the drive shaft coupling sleeve. This has two hex head bolts, one on the transaxle side, one on the front side.

The drive shaft has indents in it for these two bolts, so just loosening them has no effect. To move the coupler back towards the transaxle, you have to actually take the bolts all the way out. Then the coupler should slide easy.

The same is true when you reassemble - the sleeve has to be in just the right spot so the bolts will slide through the indent in the driveshaft. If you don't get the coupler sleeve in just the right spot, you won't be able to get the bolts to thread.

If the sleeve is in the right spot, you should be able to tighten the bolts almost all the way by hand (okay, with a hex head socket on an extention by hand).

The last important thing is that anytime you have a steel bolt going into aluminum threads, make sure you "wake up" the bolt by banging on it good before you try to break it. This saves a lot of stripped heads.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
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John_AZ

Thanks a lot. The info should help me avoid a few (hopefully all) potential problems.

From the link I also learned a ton about doing a clutch replacement (should I ever need to do one).

I'll think of removing the transaxle (to do the gas tank removal & vent line replacement) as a practice session if I ever need to take it out again to do the clutch.

Anyway thanks for all the assistance, I'll post the outcome once I get it done.
Car is now off the road for the winter and it's time to start wrenching.

Thanks again
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
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Mike P.

thank you, your tips along with John's info are much appreciated.

Completely removing the bolts and "waking up the bolts with a whack" are good tips

thanks again
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
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Cosmo Dawg,
Thanks.
I have another link you should see.
Gas fumes? Tank leaks? Read this.

There may be a tar coating in the crack prone area. Check carefully. My '87S had a hair line crack.

GL
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:41 AM
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Clearance behind the transaxle on the 924S could be pretty limited...it most definitely was on my car. I had to pry against the spare tire well to bend it in and gain an extra much needed inch so that the input shaft would be able to slide completely out of the coupler, even though the coupler was slid as far forward on the drive shaft as it would go. Reinstalling can be really tricky when you have to get the transaxle in exactly the right position so the input shaft will slide back into the coupler. Other than that, it's pretty easy, unless you strip the CV bolts.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:02 PM
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87 924S Gas tank removal

OK, I got the tranny out and it loOKs much better after being degreased and steam cleaned.

Got the Gas tank out and it is not the same design that John_AZ warned me about (hairline cracks where the metal was stamped). Tank looks good, no cracks so I'm happy for that.

Now I'm looking for opinions / suggestions on replacement parts.

Four types of parts, vent hoses, hose clamps, transmission mounts and rear shocks.

1. Gas tank hoses, should I just use general parts store fuel lines to replace the hoses or should I to to Porsche and use the exact Porsche parts. Some of the hoses are molded (with bends) and I will likely replace those with OEM parts from Porsche but the others are just straight hoses, cut to length as required. For these I could easily use the correct diameter hose from any auto ports store. Is it worth the extra $$$ to stay OEM?

2. Hose clamps, same thing, should I just use new worm screw clamps from auto parts store or get the Porsche replacement clamps.

3. Tranny mounts look fine and were not causing any problems but since the tranny is already out is it worth spending the bucks to replace the mounts. (FYI - I am thinking of not replacing them right now since I can get to them easily once the transmission is reinstalled and if I need to replace them in the future it will be easy)

4. Any recommendations on rear shocks, I don't race, it's just a cruising and commuting car in the summer, but I don't mind spending a few extra bucks (a few) on a better shock if it will provide noticeable handling improvement

For 1 & 2 either parts should work fine but I'm looking for opinions and if there is anything I should know (like perhaps the worm screw clamps are slightly larger in diameter then OEM clamps and will cause interference when I put it all back together) that I have not found out about.......yet.

Guys thanks again for your assistance and suggestions. Now it's time to get new parts and start putting it back together.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

C. Dawg
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo Dawg View Post
1. Gas tank hoses, should I just use general parts store fuel lines to replace the hoses or should I to to Porsche and use the exact Porsche parts. Some of the hoses are molded (with bends) and I will likely replace those with OEM parts from Porsche but the others are just straight hoses, cut to length as required. For these I could easily use the correct diameter hose from any auto ports store. Is it worth the extra $$$ to stay OEM?

2. Hose clamps, same thing, should I just use new worm screw clamps from auto parts store or get the Porsche replacement clamps.

3. Tranny mounts look fine and were not causing any problems but since the tranny is already out is it worth spending the bucks to replace the mounts. (FYI - I am thinking of not replacing them right now since I can get to them easily once the transmission is reinstalled and if I need to replace them in the future it will be easy)

4. Any recommendations on rear shocks, I don't race, it's just a cruising and commuting car in the summer, but I don't mind spending a few extra bucks (a few) on a better shock if it will provide noticeable handling improvement

For 1 & 2 either parts should work fine but I'm looking for opinions and if there is anything I should know (like perhaps the worm screw clamps are slightly larger in diameter then OEM clamps and will cause interference when I put it all back together) that I have not found out about.......yet.

Guys thanks again for your assistance and suggestions. Now it's time to get new parts and start putting it back together.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

C. Dawg
In no order.
1. You are correct, do not replace the tranny mounts now-easy fix later if necessary.
2. Hose clamps. NO NO NO cheapo worm screw clamps. I would use fuel injection clamps. Same goes for hose. Aftermarket approved fuel injection hose--NOT standard fuel line. It is not necessary to go Porsche OEM on straight hose.
3. I use Boge/Sachs and like the ride. Bilstein is another option. Hold off on Koni until you add the rear turbo sway bar and linkage
4. Moulded hose. Your call. Check Pelican parts. Make sure you replace the tank to pump "S" hose--usually has cracks. You may want to go a step further and clean the fuel pump check valve. It is just a brass/ball feature to prevent the gas in the fuel lines going back in the tank and causes longer starting.

GL
John_AZ
Old 12-02-2008, 03:22 PM
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87 924S Gas tank removal

John_AZ

thanks.

Just to clarify these hoses I'm replacing are just vent hoses they are not under any pressure.

The hoses from the tank to pump and filter that are under pressure I would for sure use better quality fuel injection hoses.

I agree that worm screw clamps are cheap and I was thinking of using the OEM replacement clamps but was not thinking of going to fuel injection clamps.

Given that the vent hoses are only at atmospheric pressure do you still recommend fuel injection clamps?

The tank to pump S hose looks good (it may of been replaced when the fuel pump was replaced, before I owned the car). Plus I can get to that hose easy after the fuel tank in reinstalled.

I'll clean the pump check valve, that should be easy with everything already out.

Appreciate the comments on shocks. I was looking at Bilstein but they are semi pricey. I'll check out Boge / Sachs.

Thanks again
CD
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:54 PM
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On my "87 tank on top, there is a long slender, semi clear plastic overflow/collector tube and hoses connected to it an other stuff. I used fuel injection clamps on top of the tank because I never want to worry of a vibration induced clamp failure and have to redo even tho no real fuel pressure is applied.

John_AZ
Old 12-02-2008, 08:26 PM
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CD,
I came across an old post of mine and if you still have the transaxle out check your shift linkage. If you feel you have excessive Left to Right play on the shift lever this may be the problem.
Loose shifter

GL
John_AZ
Old 12-03-2008, 08:24 PM
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87 924S Gas tank removal

John_AZ

thanks for the link on tranny shifting slop, I checked my transmission and the plastic piece looks ok, plus my shifting seemed fine when I was driving the car.

Back to the replacement hoses. I have found fuel injection hoses of the correct ID for every hose except for the ones you mentioned....

(there is a long slender, semi clear plastic overflow/collector tube and hoses connected to it)

These expansion tank hoses (for the long slender expansion tank that sits on top of the fuel tank) are 15MM ID and I have only found smaller fuel injection hoses locally in the following three sizes.....

1/4" or ~6MM
5/16" or ~ 8 MM
3/8" or ~10 MM

I have not found larger sized fuel injection hose for those 15MM expansion tank hoses. Typical low pressure fuel line sized 5/8" (15.875 MM) would work fine but I can't find 5/8" (or 15MM) higher pressure injection hose.

Were you able to find 15MM fuel injection hoses or did you just use standard 5/8" fuel line but with the better fuel injection clamps?

I'm thinking of just going with the 5/8" standard fuel line but wanted to check with you to see if you know a source for 15MM fuel injection hose (I only need about 4').

thanks
CD
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:35 AM
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"I'm thinking of just going with the 5/8" standard fuel line but wanted to check with you to see if you know a source for 15MM fuel injection hose (I only need about 4')."

I went with standard fuel line hose.

I think you have everything covered. When you assemble the shift linkage, do not over torque the small shaft pins (bolts) and replace the security wire. It is a half day job to drill out and no room for tools.

GL
John_AZ
Old 12-04-2008, 05:49 AM
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87 924S Gas Tank removal

John

After sniffing aroung on the web I did find 15MM fuel injection hose in England.

But I think that it's not needed on the vent lines and would be overkill so I am going to go with standard 5/8 fuel line, thanks

On your other comment....

"When you assemble the shift linkage, do not over torque the small shaft pins (bolts)"

it's weird, the Haynes book said to drive out the shift linkage pins with a drift but the only thing I had to do regarding ther shift linkage was take out the bolt with the safety wire and slide the shift rod forward to get it out of the belhousing.

I did not have to remove any pins around the shift linkage with a drift. The tranny dropped down with no interference and I did not do anything on or around the shift linkage (besides removing the 1 shift tube bolt & wire)

anyway thanks again I think I am ready to begin the reassembly, the only part I am waiting for is the gas tank fuel fill rubber sleeve (right behind the gas fuller door on the side of the car) that the metal fill tube slides into. The old one was brittle and semi broken. I ordered it from the Porsche dealer and it has to come from Germany (~4-6 weeks). no biggie

I can put the tank back in as well as the tranny and then just wait for the part and Spring.

CD
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:17 AM
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