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Can't get the darn engine in from the top!! :(

I have tried for 2 hours to get the motor in from the top. All I have succeeded in doing is breaking things and still the motor is not in. Things I have mucked up so far...

1) Scratched the shock tower
2) broke the o2 sensor plug near the fire wall
3) mashed my rear BSB and TB cover
4) dinged up the hood latch receptacle

If it wasn't for the hood latch receptacle the engine would go straight in. I guess now I just need to bite the bullet and prep the car to take the engine from the bottom.

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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-16-2009, 03:43 PM
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Nobody Special
 
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Out and in from the bottom has always been easier for me. I just drop mine with the X-member attached and pull the struts out of the way when I re-install. Be careful when you have the car up high in the front and make sure the jack stands are flat on the pavement. You obviously have a hoist but do you have an leveler for the engine? It really helps when lining up that TT shaft into the pilot bearing.
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86 - 951 - Garrett dbb T3/T4R/Tial/Maxtronic -SOLD
91 - BMW 325 iX AWD, 5-spd Coupe, Lazur Blau Metallic-SOLD
86 - 951-K26/8, daily driver-SOLD
87 - 944S - Another daily driver-SOLD
Old 01-16-2009, 04:49 PM
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I just attached the cross member to the engine. I will proceed tomorrow with the install. I do not have a leveler but when I pick the engine up from under the car I will eye ball the angle and compare it to the torque tube.

Speedy
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-16-2009, 07:02 PM
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Nobody Special
 
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Sometimes the clutch disc can get sort of missed aligned. If you get to the point where you can't quite get that TT tip into the pilot bearing (last 3/4" to 1") it helps to have someone in the car depress the clutch and then jiggle the engine or TT around...just don't go forward with the engine more than you have to. Good Luck it must be cold as hell working on a car back there. Man I couldn't do it in sub zero weather.
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86 - 951 - Garrett dbb T3/T4R/Tial/Maxtronic -SOLD
91 - BMW 325 iX AWD, 5-spd Coupe, Lazur Blau Metallic-SOLD
86 - 951-K26/8, daily driver-SOLD
87 - 944S - Another daily driver-SOLD
Old 01-16-2009, 07:08 PM
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Happy New Year Speedy. I thought the bottom was the only way to put an engine in. Is it the Chevy engine you are putting in?
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Jim

1983 944n/a
2003 Mercedes CLK 500 - totaled. Sanwiched on the Kennedy Expressway
Old 01-17-2009, 05:01 AM
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Happy new year to you as well Jim. No the engine going in is the one I redid from Chitown944's parts car.
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-17-2009, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Tight View Post
Sometimes the clutch disc can get sort of missed aligned. If you get to the point where you can't quite get that TT tip into the pilot bearing (last 3/4" to 1") it helps to have someone in the car depress the clutch and then jiggle the engine or TT around...just don't go forward with the engine more than you have to. Good Luck it must be cold as hell working on a car back there. Man I couldn't do it in sub zero weather.
I used the clutch alignment tool to align the clutch friction disk with the pilot bearing. Hopefully it just slide right in.

It is indeed cold out there with a -35 degree wind chill but I have 90,000 btu's worth of heat in a oversized 1 car garage. It gets pretty warm. I can work in a T-shirt if I want to.

Speedy
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-17-2009, 09:51 AM
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I actually found one of the easiest ways to lift the car up to get the motor out (and will do so going back in) was using an engine hoist chained to the front end structure to lift the car while tires were still on the back wheels. The front of the car, with the engine out, is balanced by the weight of the rear slug transmission to the point that me and a friend could easily roll the car around on it's back two tires afterwards to reorient it in it's garage bay.


I had thought about going in the top route but scrap that idea. I'd much rather put the whole engine in with the crossmember attached.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:37 AM
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I drop them in from the top all the time.

It has to go in at an angle about 20-30 deg rotated off center (not aligned with the TT) Once you get it down in the engine bay you pull it forward so it is slightly under the upper rad support and rotate it to align with the TT and BAM!!!! It will slip rite in.

This all came from having a car tip up when we pulled the motor out the bottom. With the motor out all the weight of the trans changed the balance point (the car was on 4 jack stands on the jack points) and the car ended up sitting with the nose about 5 feet in the air. We had to have the rear valance replaced and repainted. From that day forward all motors come out the top.. .. And I put a 5th jack stand under the trans-axle.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:18 PM
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This is a fortuitous post. My wife had a head gasket blow a few months back. Instead of doing the sensible thing, pull over and have the RAC tow her home she ...

... drove a further twenty miles at speed figuring I'd fix it when she got home! On the 25th mile the car died on her and she was obliged to call the RAC who pronounced the engine well and truly fried (fried wasn't the actual word he meant, I'm sure).

Anyhow ... I am also faced with speedracing944's dillema. How to get the engine out with minimum hassle. I also intended to pull the engine from the top using a decent hoist with a leveller bar. I was also concerned about the issues Speedracing944 is facing - breaking stuff.

I know the engine is traditionally supposed to come out from the bottom. However, there was a lot of stuff I had concerns about in doing so. The biggest is logistics. The engine is pretty tall - how do you get the car high enough to clear the engine sitting on top of the X frame? The engine is heavy enough on its own and sitting on top of the X frame isn't going to help. How do you pull the whole plot clear of the car?

To get the height should the car be propped on axles stands all round? I was concerned (and Dean924s has reaffirmed my concern) that the car would flip up, or worse, fall backwards and off the stands with disastrous damage.

My wife's car is automatic - is this going to be easier or harder to pull the engine clear from the bellhousing?

Sorry to hijack speedracing944's post but he's not asking my questions fast enough.

So far pulling the engine from the top still seems the most easily do-able and safest way and I was hoping speedracing944 was going to carry on that way so I could leech off his experience.

What's the absolute textbook way of doing this without it all going fubar?
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."
Old 01-18-2009, 03:20 AM
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I have pulled 4 engines so far and all have been through the bottom except 1 which is my '83. Pulling the engine out from the top was a PITA and things were very very tight. A couple months have gone by since pulling it out and that time has dulled the pain. I though that I would try to insert it from the top but no cigar.

I have already dropped the cross member, anti-sway bar, and steering rack. The motor is bolted to the cross member and ready to drag it under the car.

I have always lifted the front of the car with an engine hoist hooked up to the passenger side frame rail. It was always high enough to slide the engine in and out. The car was never in danger of tipping over backwards as the center of gravity is still very much forward of the rear wheels.

Speedy
__________________
1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-18-2009, 06:48 AM
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Nobody Special
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Skies View Post
I know the engine is traditionally supposed to come out from the bottom. However, there was a lot of stuff I had concerns about in doing so. The biggest is logistics. The engine is pretty tall - how do you get the car high enough to clear the engine sitting on top of the X frame? The engine is heavy enough on its own and sitting on top of the X frame isn't going to help. How do you pull the whole plot clear of the car?

To get the height should the car be propped on axles stands all round? I was concerned (and Dean924s has reaffirmed my concern) that the car would flip up, or worse, fall backwards and off the stands with disastrous damage.

My wife's car is automatic - is this going to be easier or harder to pull the engine clear from the bellhousing?

Sorry to hijack speedracing944's post but he's not asking my questions fast enough.

So far pulling the engine from the top still seems the most easily do-able and safest way and I was hoping speedracing944 was going to carry on that way so I could leech off his experience.

What's the absolute textbook way of doing this without it all going fubar?
Maybe these pics will help as far as how tall to get the car. It's much easier from the bottom IMO. I dropped this one with the crossmember, turbo, and full exhaust so an NA has much more room. I did pull my intake just to make disconnecting the harness components easier. Clarks Garage has a good write-up. Personally I like to remove the radiator also since it comes out so easily; the added forward clearance is helpful. When I have the engine free I drop it onto my auto creeper and roll it out.



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86 - 951 - Garrett dbb T3/T4R/Tial/Maxtronic -SOLD
91 - BMW 325 iX AWD, 5-spd Coupe, Lazur Blau Metallic-SOLD
86 - 951-K26/8, daily driver-SOLD
87 - 944S - Another daily driver-SOLD

Last edited by 2Tight; 01-18-2009 at 08:34 AM..
Old 01-18-2009, 07:45 AM
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Ah! Engine on the creeper. Good idea. I always just placed it onto a piece of plywood and dragged it across the floor.

Speedy
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-18-2009, 08:29 AM
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Speedracing944 -
Since I am waiting on a new DME, my 924S work is at a standstill. Look up stomski in the local phone book if you need a hand sometime and good luck.
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87 924S NA - Silver, 86 Trimagnum (three wheeler built from prints), Laser 917 (Porsche 917 Replica from the '70s) - long term project
Old 01-18-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kstomski View Post
Speedracing944 -
Since I am waiting on a new DME, my 924S work is at a standstill. Look up stomski in the local phone book if you need a hand sometime and good luck.

Thanks for the offer. My wife is actually very handy in the garage and has helped me tons so far today.

Update... The engine is bolted to the torque tube and I am starting to reinstall all the plumbing and electrical onto the engine. Boy is there a lot of stuff to hook up.
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-18-2009, 11:56 AM
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Nobody Special
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracing944 View Post
..Update... The engine is bolted to the torque tube and I am starting to reinstall all the plumbing and electrical onto the engine. Boy is there a lot of stuff to hook up.

Good job, that was fast!
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86 - 951 - Garrett dbb T3/T4R/Tial/Maxtronic -SOLD
91 - BMW 325 iX AWD, 5-spd Coupe, Lazur Blau Metallic-SOLD
86 - 951-K26/8, daily driver-SOLD
87 - 944S - Another daily driver-SOLD
Old 01-18-2009, 12:18 PM
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Lots of very useful info here guys. So, am I to assume that once the flywheel bell housing is unbolted, electrical stuff unplugged etc. etc. and all the odds and sods holding the X frame in place removed that the whole plot can be eased back away from the torque tube and then lowered to the floor. I don't need to unbolt the auto transmission / ease back the torque tube or anything?
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."
Old 01-18-2009, 12:23 PM
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We removed the latch receptacle and put new rivets in, engine in from the top!
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Skies View Post
Lots of very useful info here guys. So, am I to assume that once the flywheel bell housing is unbolted, electrical stuff unplugged etc. etc. and all the odds and sods holding the X frame in place removed that the whole plot can be eased back away from the torque tube and then lowered to the floor. I don't need to unbolt the auto transmission / ease back the torque tube or anything?
You should able to just pull everything forward in one big mass. Remove the radiator first though.

Speedy
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1983 944 guards red with 16" Fuchs, Host of Wisconsin area timing/ balance shaft belt tensioning party
1987 944S Purchased from Legion. Corvette LT-1 V-8 conversion with Mega Squirt II
Check on progress ---> www.porschehybrids.com/gallery/speedracing944
Favorite Road = www.tailofthedragon.com 318 turns in 11 miles (11 min 20 sec best run)
Old 01-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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Speedracing944, I'm curious how after you disconnect the X member and the engine from the torque tube how do you slide it forward and lower it to the ground and when reinstalling how are you raising it... that engine must weigh at least 250 lbs.

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'86 944NA
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:44 PM
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