HELP!! Just finished my head gasket job....

[USMC_944lover]

I just finished my head gasket job. I started up my car and I hear a clinking sound that is constant. Thought it would lack of oil but ran 5 minutes when I noticed that there was a good amount of white exhaust coming out of my tailpipe. ???? isnt that what I a was trying to fix? hmmm. Well, I don't know what to do now. The clinking sound sounded like it was coming from somewhere near the bottom of the engine. Timing off? The clinking doesn't sound like friction but something with no oil is my guess. ANY suggestions? I did EVERYTHING by the manual of clarks garage. The TDC was good on the flywheel while the mark was right on in the hole on the cam housing. I torqued the head and cam to the specs. added oil of course. I dont know. Please anyone help with this! Maybe someone else has come across this same problem. thank you!

Robert Dressler

[Razorback1980]

What does the oil pressure gauge say? If you have good oil pressure, then let's look at the smoke. Pull the plugs and look at them. Do any have coolant on them. Black smoke is usually fuel, blue smoke is oil and white smoke is coolant. The clinking doesn't sound good. Can you tell if it is coming from the front of the engine or the back? Sound carries very well through metal, so I listen through a stethescope. If you don't have one of those, you can put a screwdriver (plastic part) next to your ear and touch things with the metal end and you will be able to hear where it's loundest. typically, I look where I worked as that is what has changed. Maybe something from the timing belt area hitting something else in there. You can remove the covers and run it without the covers long enough to find the problem. If it's from the back of the engine, look in the flywheel area since you probably had the starter off. You didn't change anything in the bottom of the engine (I don't think) so I wouldn't suspect much there but you could always drain the oil and look for shavings if you suspicion anything there and then pour the oil back in (if it's still clean) through a white t shirt to remove anything in there. Let us know if the noise is in the front or the back of the engine.

[Razorback1980]

Check your timing marks again...make sure a valve isn't hitting a piston. So don't run it at high rpms until you figure this out. Timing is set by the computer, so that's probably not it unless you have it so far off the computer can't adjust it but then it probably wouldn't run.

[firefighter7128]

wheres your wedding ring?

[John_AZ]

I have reread the post and each issue has a separate opinion. Ignore the white smoke for now. Hopefully it is burn off or condensation from sitting in freezing garage. Lifter noise should go away after 5 minutes or so.

The clanking. Firefighter7128 may be close. Is the noise coming from the bottom front of engine or rear? The clutch housing inspection hole for TDC. Could anything have fallen into the hole like a OE hose clip. Did you replace any hoses under the manifold or the heater control valve?

If the clicking came from the front of the engine, did you remove the feeler guage from the balance shaft belt to roller when tensioned? Maybe a loose bolt. Here is a nasty picture from a current Rennlist post-Credit to rixter:



We know your pain. Good Luck.

John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[USMC_944lover]

I will pull the plugs later. The sound just sounded louder when I climbed under the engine to see where the smoke was coming from. It was a ticking that was constant. I never changed out the starter and never removed the belts. I will also take of the belt covers to see if there is anything that fell into that compartment.
Razor- how can I tell if the piston is hitting the valve? I really hope that isnt it. I didn't see any leaks. The oil pressure readings were at the midlevel so I dont think that was the problem. Other then that I dont know whats going on. I will have to check the plugs. I am going out of town tomorrrow morning so i will be back monday night. I will try to do this tonight to find out. I thought the sounds was in the front of the engine. please let me know if there is any other suggestions. Thanks guys I appreciate it!

[Razorback1980]

Best way to tell about the valves is recheck your timing marks. If they are right, the valves are not hitting the piston. It could be lifters as John said but that would be the top of the engine. With it being in the front, the first thing is to pull the covers and check everything there again. Look for shiny things where something is rubbing or hitting. Check that the belts are still tight and where they should be. Make sure they are routed properly. The thing I was worried about is if you took the gear off the crank and maybe didn't get it back on correctly and didn't have oil pressure. Good news about the pressure so at least there is a positive there. Did you remove the crank gear? I'm sure something isn't lined up right and is hitting as it rotates. Pulling the timing belt covers will probably reveal the answer. We'll worry about the smoke later.

[JonA]

Make sure it is not just the lifters fillng up before you start tearing everything apart. Can you feel it or just hear it? If you are banging a valve into a piston it's going to be pretty dramatic.
Don't worry about the smoke until it has been running for a while.

Good luck,
Jon

[USMC_944lover]

I hear ya! It really didnt sound to violent. Sounded like lifters not getting the oil yet until I climbed under the car and noticed that it was loud. right at the bottom of the block.

[2Tight]

Originally Posted by USMC_944lover

I will pull the plugs later. The sound just sounded louder when I climbed under the engine to see where the smoke was coming from. It was a ticking that was constant. I never changed out the starter and never removed the belts. I will also take of the belt covers to see if there is anything that fell into that compartment.

I'm not sure what you mean by that one? You just left the belts on and slipped it off the cam gear I assume? I think it's a lifter not pumping up depending on how long they were out and were they stored in oil? Did you check all the lifters for re-service before putting them back in? Another thing could be a dropped bolt that fell into your sensor opening and is touching the flywheel. The white exhaust takes awhile to completely go away after a HG failure so I wouldn't worry about that.
I hope you find it.

[USMC_944lover]

Ya I slipped the belt off the cam gear. I did not soak the lifters in oil, was I supposed to? The lifters were recently new and there was no damage to any of them. What is the sensor opening? The opening at the back where the flywheel opening is?

My plan is first to take off all of the belt covers. How would I check to see if there is something on the flywheel? If so, how would I remove it? I have no record of lost bolts. I kept very good track of EVERYTHING that I removed from the car in little baggies. So the exhaust isnt necessarily a bad thing after a HG problem? I just figured that it shouldnt be happening after sealing the head. I dont know if the cold weather was just helping it look like it was alot but it was.

[2Tight]

You would be amazed how much coolant can get into your exhaust depending on how bad the HG failure was. It takes a while and normal operating temps to burn it all out. Another thing you might check is make sure all of the exhaust nuts on the manifold are tight including the connection to the pre-cat section. An exhaust leak or crack in a tube can sound like a rod knock, a bad lifter, or just a odd clicking sound. There's really no way to check for a dropped bolt through the sensor/TDC hole once the engine has fired over. I have dropped one between my flywheel and block during a clutch job; luckily I only had gotten as far as the pressure plate installation. I always cover those openings now.

It's a good habit to leave the lifters submerged in oil even if they are new to prevent leakdown. Sometimes even a new lifter can take awhile to pump back up. If you have good oil pressure I would let it run for awhile and see if the noise goes away. What else can you do at this point anyway? Did you have any head work done at the same time?

[zedsn]

Hi, when you blew the headgasket did you get any coolent inside your block or did it all go out the tailpipe? If so you might have gotten coolent inside your main bearings thus giving you a rod knock or you could be hearing the bearings grind? Doubt so but just a thought.

[John_AZ]

Not wanting to open the oil can of worms, but I will. What brand and weight did you install. How many miles are on the car. We can estimate if the odometer has failed.
John_AZ

[many944s]

Ok, let's look at this a little more carefully...

1: You changed the head gasket, so the timing belt was removed from the cam pulley. so let's make sure the timing is correct.

2: To second John_AZ, what brand and weight of oil are you using? I ask this because I always run 20/50 dino oil, and if the car has sat too long, there is ALOT of lifter noise for a few minutes, though that is a top end noise not usually more noticeable from the bottom end.

3: After considering the above, was there alot of coolant in the cyl's when you removed the head? As 2Tight mentioned, if the coolant was leaking by for a while it will take quite some time to burn all of the coolant from the exhaust, though that wouldn't account for the noise...

4: I know it sounds weird but... get about 2-1/2 feet of 1/2"-3/4" dowel rod (half a broom stick) while the engine is running, place one end of the rod against both the cam tower (by each cyl), and lower half of the block (again by each con-rod), and the other end against your ear. This will transport the noise through the rod to your ear for a better idea of where the noise is coming from.

... Report back

-Nick

[914efi]

Small exhaust leaks can sound like valves ticking. Try the stethoscope idea(#4 above), you will be amazed at what you can hear. I bought one at Sears and it is pretty useful.

[Brando]

Robert,
Sounds like every issue has been covered.

Change the oil asap if you didn't while replacing head gaskets.

The ticking noise you are hearing may be the lifters. If it were more of a clacking noise (like a small metal hammer on cement) I'd be worried about rod/crank bearing damage from the coolant. Depending on how long you drove the car with a blown head gasket, you may have some piston slap inside a scored cylinder. Even though the cylinder walls are embedded with silicon, without that oil lubrication there (due to too much fuel, water/coolant) damage to the cylinder walls and piston rings can still happen.

Here's what I'd do:

Oil change. Get the car nice and warm. Toss in 1/2 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil. Run it for a few minutes so it circulates around. Drain the oil and refill with your preferred brand of 10w30. The marvel mystery oil may also help with your lifters (helped for mine way back when). It will NOT help with a collapsed lifter though.

Also re-check your exhaust is attached and there are no loose nuts. A nasty exhaust leak can sound like something is really broken.

G'luck!

[USMC_944lover]

I replaced the coolant and oil when the head was removed. I didnt take off the belts, I slipped off the belt at the cam housing. My car has 219k on it. I had a full engine rebuild and tranny rebuild at 175K. When I get back from vacation I will check where the noise is coming from and what is exactly sounds like. I was using the crappy oil which is 10/40 for the first 500 miles then putting in the good stuff. Was going to wash the system out persay. Well I dont believe I have ever heard of the Marvel Oil??? I am going to talk to nynor when I am going to run the car again so he can tell me if he thinks it is horrible noise or just common. I was too afraid to keep it running with the noise/white smoke coming out. I do think that the bottom portion of exhaust is not properly tightened down because when I was running the car I noticed some exhaust coming out of the connection. So I will tighten that first thing tomorrow. then go off after that. I will have to get a steth from school since I am going to school for medical.

Nick- there was a little amt of coolant that released when the head was lifted though I have never done a head so I dont know it was alot or a little on that scale. Thanks for the info on the "broom stick" wierd I have heard of a screw driver but not a stick.

thanks guys. Any further suggestions from my answers? I am not really concerned of the smoke yet, but the noise is a mystery for me right now.

Happy New Years guys!!!!

[USMC_944lover]

Happy New Year everyone!

[legoland951]

The lifters will almost always make noise after head gasket replacement unless you do it all in one day. Sometimes, it will take more than 30 minutes of running time before it goes away. When you pull the head off, coolant and oil will get into the exhaust especially if you are using a hose to wash out the cooling jacket or using compressed air to blow all the stuff out of the cylinders. If your belt is off where the valve is hitting, its already too late because the first couple revolutions will bend valves and your engine will no longer run on all 4 cylinder. Remember, oil on the header and exhaust can take a quite a while to burn off so its normal for your car to smoke under the hood and out of the exhaust pipe.