944 Brake Upgrade

[Endat]

I'm nuts about brakes.. so I was browsing evilbay looking for upgrades for my standard 944S brakes, and I found these:

Originally Posted by evilbay

Porsche – 911/944/928/Turbo/GTS BIG BRAKE Calipers - This auction is for a pair of front 928 GTS “Big Black” calipers fitted w/Mintex Race pads. These are the same calipers as “Big Reds/993 Twin Turbo” but were used on the 928 GTS. These are in like new condition and have only seen a total of 300 miles of use. The calipers are fitted with Mintex race pads which are included in the auction. These are radial mount calipers and will require adaptor blocks if mounting to axial mount spindles. These calipers house 36/44 pistons and require a 322 mm rotors (993 Twin Turbo/928 GTS). These calipers are in excellent working order.

These are an EXCELLENT upgrade for 911 and 944 cars.

No warranty included or implied. I reserve the right to cancel bids from those bidders that show negative and/or zero feedback.

Good luck and check out my other Porsche parts auctions

And I was wondering what other changes I would need to make or if these calipers will just attach without fuss. If not are there any 4 piston calipers that will strap to the factory caliper brackets... maybe from the standard 944 turbo, or 944 S2, or 968?


Thanks for your help,
Bobby

[Techno Duck]

Whatever route you decide to take with factory calipers, you will need to get spindles from an '87 - '88 951, '88-91 S2 or any model 968 that is not M030. Your choices will be even more limited if your car is equipped with ABS, as you can only use spindles from a late offset 951 or S2 that also had ABS or any year 968.

The regular 'baby Brembo' equipped on all normal 951, S2 and 968 models (and some 964) are a direct fit onto your car aslong as you have the spindles for the front. The rear calipers are a direct swap, you need a 1/2'' washer to act as a spacer in the rear, thats it. Other than that, the obvious.. pads and rotors. And you will also need atleast 16'' wheels to clear the baby Brembo's. These are alot of brake for a n/a 944. More than enough i think.

To fit either the S4 caliper (same as equipped on the 951S, M030 S2 and M030 968), you will need the front turbo spindles and adapters to go from an axial mount to a radial mount. These are available from RacersEdge. This goes the same for the Big Blacks and Big Reds, they use the same adapter as the S4 caliper. Note however, you must run 17'' wheels to clear the Big Blacks / Big Reds. You can avoid the use of adapters with the S4, Big Blacks and Big Reds by getting spindles and hubs from a 951S or M030 968, but these are uber expensive.

The only other part you need is the rear bias valve, which your 944S actually comes with stock.

There are bolt on 4-pistons for the front only from Rennbay which allow you to run 15'' wheels still. Personally i think the factory option is better because you increase rotor size (better heat capacity) and change both front and rear calipers, not just the front (so factory brake balance is preserved).

Here is a comparo picture of the rotors, top is stock 944, middle is stock 944 Turbo, bottom is a 928 GTS rotor (Big Blacks / Big Reds). Same thickness as the S4 rotor, but larger diameter.



GTS rotor compared to stock 951 rotor.



This is a 'baby Brembo' compared to a S4 caliper. The Big Black / Big Red caliper looks similar, however accepts a larger brake pad and larger rotor.



You can do this swap for relativley cheap if you shop around. I was able to convert my 8v 944 to the stock 951 setup for under $600.

I am selling the front baby Brembo's from my 951 in a month or two if you are interested in them. I am upgrading to the S4 calipers in the front.

[Endat]

Yeah, I am equipped with ABS.. I would definitely be interested in your calipers when you decide to get rid of them.. are you selling all 4 or just the front 2?

Let me know when you are ready to sell, I will start looking for non-M030 spindles with ABS.

I kinda like the idea of 4 piston bolt-on upgrade, but I dont exactly like Wilwood brakes. They can be seen on evilbay for about $500, but I think I'd rather have stock calipers than those... they're very cheap looking, doesnt inspire much confidence, which is good when you're talking brakes.

[Marcquito]

Techno Duck, that was a great post!

Good luck with your project, Endat. I also have a 'brake fetish'.... haha.

[drive418]

I am upgrading my 944 na '87 to the baby brembo set up. Do I need to be concerned about a brake bias valve?

[Techno Duck]

You should get the bias valve aswell. Without it you will have too much rear brake bias which can cause a very unstable car, especially when applying brakes while turning. This is because the clamping force of the rear calipers is increased significantly going from single pistons to four pistons in the back.

[DKillaPorsche]

Hey techno duck - and others...

Just to clarify - im looking at upgrade my '83 to all s2 running gear (engine, suspension, brakes, etc) but i figured i would do things right the first time around and the s4 brake upgrade seems doable while im in there.

If i do this upgrade to s2 stuff will i just need the adaptor (s4 caliper and rotor aswell obviously)???

Cheers

[Rasta Monsta]

Hey Duck, where is the valve located? Easy to install? Cheap to obtain used?

[Techno Duck]

Originally Posted by DKillaPorsche

Hey techno duck - and others...

Just to clarify - im looking at upgrade my '83 to all s2 running gear (engine, suspension, brakes, etc) but i figured i would do things right the first time around and the s4 brake upgrade seems doable while im in there.

If i do this upgrade to s2 stuff will i just need the adaptor (s4 caliper and rotor aswell obviously)???

Cheers

As long as you are swapping the entire suspension (essentially converting your car to late offset) all you need are the adapters (assuming you are using non M030 spindles) and the 951S rotors. For an early offset car im not sure what rotors you need. I think i read something in the past on RL That something like 930 rotors worked.. but i am pretty sure you need to run a 2pc rotor (custom rotor hats needed).

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Hey Duck, where is the valve located? Easy to install? Cheap to obtain used?

The bias valve is located on the front left port of the brake master cylinder on non-ABS equipped cars. On ABS equipped cars, its right on the ABS pump in the right side fender well. I dont remember what line it comes off though on the pump. I have a picture floating around of it somewhere, i can find it if you want. The valve esentially goes inline between the ABS / master cylinder and the hard line.

[DKillaPorsche]

Techno - i am planning on converting the entire suspension to late offset with non M030 spindles.

So all I need is the adapaters and 951S rotors as the brake bias valve should already be fitted. Question - can the S4 rotors not be used?

Cheers mate!

[Techno Duck]

Originally Posted by DKillaPorsche

Techno - i am planning on converting the entire suspension to late offset with non M030 spindles.

So all I need is the adapaters and 951S rotors as the brake bias valve should already be fitted. Question - can the S4 rotors not be used?

Cheers mate!

Your '83 will not have a bias valve stock, the only n/a with single pistons that had a bias valve was the 944S.

The S4 rotor is the same thing as the 951S rotor. They both use the same caliper also.

[DKillaPorsche]

Yeah....sorry....i meant the S2 i am getting parts from will come with the bias valve. I will then get the rotor and calipers accordingly.