Water pump size?

[aaronhab]

does anyone know if there any fast way to tell what size water pump i have on my car?

the timing belt kits are for two different kinds of water pumps and i want to make sure i get the right one.

[John_AZ]

Good information at www.clarks-garage.com:
http://www.clarks-garage.com/pdf-manual/cool-07.pdf

The quick check to see if your car has the updated pump turbo pump if to look at the waterpump "nose" sticking out of the front. If it has a white "block off" plate (turbo uses-we do not), you have the updated pump.

If you car still has the OEM pump with out the silver belt guard, you should upgrade. Get the belt guard and new roller. .

Get a pump with a good guarantee---New or used.

GL
John_AZ

[aaronhab]

good info. i guess clarks garage has everything!

so it looksl ike i have the old one unless the PO upgraded, which he probably did not. im tearing apart the front part of the engine tonight to clear the way for the timing belt kit so ill confirm when i get there. thanks for the info.

that timing belt procedure has me really frightened that im gonna royally screw it up . and the tools are super expensive! i'm contemplating having it done profressionally. i got a quote for 1295 for new rollers, water pmup gasket, and all the belts.

[John_AZ]

Thanks for the reply Aaron,

$1295 actually should include the front seals and the oil cooler sleeve replacement, If the quote did not include this, they will ask you if you want to do it because everything is off And for you, we will give you a special price

You can do it yourself.
First set the engine to TDC.
Remove alt and ps belts and covers.

If your engine looks anywhere close to this greasy engine you should do the front seals and oil sleeve. Photo credit to tydriver ( who lost his front crank pullys)



Here is a link to replacing the front seals and another for the WP (and more). ALSO, the Arnnworx tools are the best to tension the timing belt.

www.arnnworx.com
http://www.arnnworx.com/my_projects.htm

If you do the WP, soak the WP bolts and nuts early with a penetrant. New bolt kits are available. If you break one off, we can help you drill it out.

Harbor Freight sells a gasket sealer some use called Hylomar. Permatex also markets it.

If you do the crank seal and oil pump sleeve, a flywheel lock is the easiest way to hold the crank steady. Some just remove the starter and jam a tire iron or screwdriver between the starter teeth. I worry the teeth may chip and it is a clutch job to replace the starter ring.

GL and post often
John_AZ

[aaronhab]

Hey John:

so i started to take a apart the front end of the engine last night and i took a few photos along the way so maybe you could take a look and let me know what you thnk the general state of the engine is:



why is there oil in the airbox? looks like it had a K&N filter int here, could this have been the oil that goes on the filter? it doesnt look like engine oil, it has a reddish tint to it, but was too thick tobe transmission fluid? it was more like maple syrup.











this is underneath the upper manifold in the back of the engine.. fresh oil back here.



underneath the belts...

looks like the front seal will need to be redone for sure, also i couldnt take out the alternator last night because i couldn't get the bolt out without removing the radiator fan?! what's with that? i'll have to tackle that today so i can get it tested...

[John_AZ]

From bottom to TOP...

That is a picture below the crankshaft pullys. Normally it means you need:
Front crank seal
Front crank "O" ring
Almost certain the oil pump sleeve. If the crank seal wore a groove in the sleeve-REPLACE

This could also be oil from the other FOES (front of engine seals), but it is normally the crank seal.


Moving up the next 5 are taken top down with the air box removed and looking at the snorkle hose opening on the drivers side.
There is a TSB on how to use a rubber cap on both snorkle ends. It was due to deep water getting into the air box-AMF and engine causing damage.

The rest looks like typical road film. Maybe the AC compressor seal spitting out a little AC oil.

The top picture of the air box. It might be the K&N oil filter treatment. You should remove the intake "J" hose. Watch out for the hoses underneath. Also the nipples crack. Get new fuel injection clamps to replace the OEM pinch clamps.

When you have the "J" intake off, look at the throttle body. If you see oil there it is usually the AOS (oil fill/filter) seals leaking. The repair requires to take the intake off. NEXT BIG JOB.

GL on the alternator bolt. Before you take it to the store to test, remove the VR and check the carbon feet. If they are 1/4 inch or so---The VR should be replaced or the complete alternator. If you buy a rebuilt, try to get a 115 amp. Our cars have built up wire/fuel pump/corrosion resistance and need a few extra amps.

GL
John_AZ

[aaronhab]

Still trying to get the alternator off - i think i made a big mistake yesterday - i took out one of the bolts on the lower tension bar that bolts the bottom of the AC compressor to the block.. i got the compressor loose but not loose enough to take off the belt, and ill need to do the power steering pump as well.

what should i do about the tension bar? was this ok to remove?

also - the i noticed that the oil cooler is under the headers and tucked up in there pretty tight...am i gonna have to pull off those headers to the get the oil cooler cover off?

[John_AZ]

Oil cooler housing.

You are really being thorough. But if you do the WP you may just as well do the oil cooler housing while the coolant is drained. You will need to drain the oil as well.

This task could be left for a later time unless you now see coolant dripping from the oil cooler or oil and coolant mixing in the crankcase or coolant reservoir.

With a little of twisting and maneuvering, remember how you do it with mental or written directions or a pencil sketch, you do not have to take off the header. You will remove the oil pressure sender. The oil pressure sender has 2 HOLLOW posts that crack easy. NO FORCE or you spend another $50 or so on a new sender,
Pelican sells a kit and get the crush washers for the oil sender and the OPRV valve or you will have new oil drips. You should also get the alignment tool for the OPRV or it may bind.

GL
John_AZ

[Techno Duck]

Use a deadblw mallet or prybar to push the a/c compressor in a clockwise direction to get the belt loose. Usually you can just loosen the lock nuts on the turnbuckle but they sometimes seize. Not a big deal doing it the way you did it.

Also looks like you have the early style waterpump, but hard to be 100% sure on your pictures.. Especially cause
I'm looking at them on my phone.

[aaronhab]

I cant get the alternator belt loose enough to pull the belt off. i think that removing the bolt from the tensioner bar at the bottom screwed me as the compressor end of the bar is now impossible to loosen because the compressor is turning when i try to remove the bolt. ive gotten the fan shroud off enough to pull the alternator bolt, but i cant swing the alternator down(clockwise) to get it off.

im obviously missing something that probably super easy but i dont know enough about the engine and instructions without diagrams confuse me as the terms for the parts keep changing.

on the water pump end - I think i may have a newer water pump, as the pumpo i have has a blank turbo hose thingy like in the pictuire on this page thgat copmpares the two...

Water Pump

any suggestions on getting that pump off? this is really annoying, because now i have all the parts here to swap out.

[HondaDustR]

The alternator is solid mounted. I always just removed the bolt on the compressor that holds the tensioner strut and swung the strut down out of the way so the compressor could get as much clearance as possible being pushed against the engine. Once the two compressor mounting bolts are loose, you really have to cram the compressor against the motor to gain just enough slack to remove the belt. It's an unecessarily tight fit.

The cooling fans have to come off for just about every job that remotely involves the front of the motor, so you will perfect the technique if you do any kind of work on the car.

Doing the oil cooler seals with the headers still on is possible, but a major exercise in frustration when it comes time for reassembly. It is VERY difficult to hold the housing on and try to get the first bolt started with so little clearance...without disrupting anything in the completed cooler/housing/gasket assembly. Removing the headers is also a major PITA if the 6 bolts that hold the headers to the Y-pipe are welded shut with rust, as they most likely are if they haven't been taken apart recently. After a day and another morning of hell dealing with those, I replaced them with stainless steel and now it's like 15 minutes to get the headers off.

Between that arnworx page and clarks-garage, you should have some good information to tackle the job. It's really not that hard, just lots of steps. Cam and balance shaft belts can be re-tensioned successfully without any fancy tools, but a flywheel lock and a balance shaft pin spanner wrench will make things alot easier.

[aaronhab]

Thanks duster - I got the fly wheel lock, but not the spanner. I will get that as well but there's no way im blowing 600 bux on a tensioner tool, especially when alot of the stuff im reading says the twist method works pretty damn well. i'm definately not as scared to tackle the timing belt now.

as far as the AC compressor, i removed the wrong tensioner bolt. i took the bolt off at the block, not at the compressor so now when i try to remove the compressor side bolt the compressor just moves and i cant get enough leverage to pry it loose.

luckily, there is almost 0 rust anywhere on the car, except int he battery tray which i hosed out yestrday and found a damn hole above the passenger side where water has seeped in through the years. luckily, the hole wasnt over any electronics.

Ill try to tackle the compressor again today. im a little frustrated at myself for being this clumsy with it, but its definately a learning experience.

[HondaDustR]

The twist method can work, although I've never used it myself.

Here's my newly prefered method, thanks to John_AZ.

Camshaft sprocket and belt change.