Hand in Albuquerque........................beer

desertt5 · 12-12-2009, 10:59 AM

I am doing a T-belt job for the first time. I am somewhat confident that I can get the belt close to the right tension, but do not have any way to measure it.

Any Pelicans in ABQ got a spare few minutes to double check the tension?

I do have beer and its in the garage out of the cold.

Thanks

Mark944na86 · 12-12-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertt5

I am doing a T-belt job for the first time. I am somewhat confident that I can get the belt close to the right tension, but do not have any way to measure it.

The Krikit 1 belt gauge is one well tested, low budget solution. Useful little things, they can also be used for measuring belt tension on the balance belt, alternator belt etc., and also on your other cars. I use it to measure belt tension before I remove (say) an alternator belt, then when it comes back time to reinstall, it takes out the guess work of how much to tighten.

I was surprised at how much I use this little tool, and not just for the 944 belt jobs. Finally, don't forget you will have to retension the timing belts after about 1500 miles or so to compensate for the stretching of a new belt.

Don't mess around -- a good chance the reason your old rollers are all dead is that some bozo set the belt too tight to begin with. There is "smart cheap", and there is "dumb cheap".

VII · 12-12-2009, 03:48 PM

As far as I know, there are only two other albuquerque pelicans besides you; Liftereyes and myself. Lifter borrowed a tool to tension his but does not have one currently to check tension. I replaced my Timing belt several months ago and just did the WP test. I'm at almost 2k miles since and have been meaning to retention though it seems fine. I would love to have the 9201 to check my tension against but I'll make due with what I have; my hands. So, neither of us are qualified to double check your tension.

I was under the impression that the kriket would not work on the late model 944? I didn't bother buying one because that is what I can to understand.

I wish you luck there desertt5 and I wish there was some way I could help.

desertt5 · 09:06 PM

VII, I did the WP test too and the half twist thing. Mine was so dang loose prior to replacing anything has to be better.

Well I am sure I will be GTG just wa looking for a second opinion. I am pretty confident in my wrenching abilities and comon sense, but the way the forums read if you aren't just right you will trash a motor. Hopefully mine will be fine.

We should have a beer sometime.

VII · 12-12-2009, 09:49 PM

I'm not very confident in my wrenching and break things constantly (broke the stupid plastic radiator overflow attachment earlier today actually) and I'm not terribly nervous about doing the WP method when I have never tensioned a belt in my life. I like living on the edge. I would be your second opinion but it wouldn't be much better than yours I'm sure. My car will probably blow up any second...

I'm always down for a lemonade, no beer for me. Perhaps we should try to rig up some sort of Alb 944 meet up or something? I'm not much of a group activity guy but I like meeting others that have similar interests that I can learn from. Liftereyes is a great guy and I've been meaning to try and get together with him though it can be difficult when we're both busy cats.

Mark944na86 · 12-13-2009, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertt5

I am pretty confident in my wrenching abilities and comon sense, but the way the forums read if you aren't just right you will trash a motor. Hopefully mine will be fine.

Good luck, my man -- hope you guess right. If not, I guess we will be hearing.

The one thing I see in common with all so-called "belt failures" is that someone tried to cut a corner or two along the way. That's why I don't see "belt failure" as much as a cause of trashed heads in these cars as much as "owner failure".

But, as they say, we all pays our monies and we all takes our chances. So good luck, once again -- it bears repeating.

desertt5 · 09:16 AM

Thanks for the bit of confidence Mark.....................not sure where you get cutting a corner from , but OK. I truly can't see spending the money on a decent tensioner tool, not the kirkit, when I am not sure I will even own this car in 30K miles.

Once again thanks for the vote of confidence, it bears repeating......................................... .........................

VII · 12-13-2009, 10:16 AM

Mark has $500 laying around for the factory belt tensioner? I don't. Hell, I could probably pick up a spare engine for about that. We'll be fine.

desertt5 · 12-13-2009, 11:10 AM

Heck its only $85 to have a shop tension it for you.

It's back together now. I just have to put the spark plugs and 2 other belts back. I am taking off tomorrow to finish. Good reason to take a day off I figured. Having the guys from work over today.

Mark944na86 · 12-13-2009, 01:53 PM

I and many others use the krikit just fine. Price? About the same as a decent carton of beer.

If your paranoia level is higher and you want to spend more on a tension gauge, you certainly can.

OTOH, if you want to save the price of the decent carton of beer, you have to use your hands. It's called prayer.

Never underestimate the power of prayer!

Good luck, guys.

VII · 12-13-2009, 03:11 PM

Mark, do you use the Kricket on your 1990 944? I had read it would not work on the later model 944s. You keep mentioning the use of the Kricket but I was under the impression it would do no good because of the spring tensioner. Will it or will it not work?

ScoobySteve · ScoobySteve's Garage

Honestly, despite repeated practice, cajoling, and praying -- I could never get a very consistent reading from my Krikit. So I ended up using a combination of the following three methods:

- Kirkit
- Finger Twist
- Belt Whine / Cover Slap Detection

At 1000mi I'm going to have it tensioned by a professional.

HondaDustR · 03:27 PM

The water pump pulley method works really well, but it helps when you also have an idea of about what a properly tensioned belt feels like as well. Do a search. Way too loose should be pretty obvious, and if it can't pass the water pump test by being too tight, it'll just wear out the pump bearings prematurely. Follow the water pump test to the letter and it should be fine. Can't absolutely guarantee it though, since everyone's implementation of it may vary, but it's pretty straightforward. John_AZ came up with it and he knows his stuff. I've used it the last 3 or 4 times I've had the belt off and it's dead consistent each time...no failures yet and I even trust my new rebuilt motor to it.

Mark944na86 · 12-13-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VII

Mark, do you use the Kricket on your 1990 944? I had read it would not work on the later model 944s. You keep mentioning the use of the Kricket but I was under the impression it would do no good because of the spring tensioner. Will it or will it not work?

VII,

If you have a spring tensioner, I would go with the method described in detail by John_AZ and HondaDustR in this earlier thread of yours:

Alternative to flywheel lock during timing belt install

Be aware that not all post 85.5 model cars (i.e., late model) cars have the autotensioner, though -- if desertt5's car is an autotensioner car, I missed that, my bad. For any car without an autotensioner, the krikit can be used for both the timing belt and the balance belt. For cars with an autotensioner, the krikit is really only useful for the balance belt. It seems some people get along with the krikit better than others -- I don't know why. Aggregating reports, the arnnworx tool seems to be a bit more foolproof (although I haven't used it personally), but also a bit pricier, of course.

Whatever method you use, I would say the "water pump method" is the definitive sanity check. Slightly subjective, but much less so than the "90 degree twist" method.

Best of luck to both of you -- no sarcasm. Apologies if I sounded a bit irritable -- I do get frustrated when I read yet another so-called "belt failure" report, and it turns out that the owner tried to cheap out on doing basic belt maintence properly. All I was trying so get across is that while proper maintenance is not free, it doesn't have to be expensive either. There's "smart cheap" and "dumb cheap". All IMHO, of course.

VII · 12-13-2009, 05:54 PM

I meant no harm; I had no ill intentions even if looking back it does read that way :0) I'm comfortable with my wp tension method I've done and will likely stick with that method in the future but that is because I've weighed the pros and cons and I'm taking the path most suitable for my situation. best of luck.

HondaDustR · 12-13-2009, 08:42 PM

The water pump method in the link above works just the same way if you have the old manual tensioner as with the auto tensioner, just tweeking the tension and settling a newly installed belt is much easier in my opinion. I'm actually glad my "new" motor has the old tensioner...it's much easier to work with combined with the water pump method.

The auto tensioner gets it pretty good with a slight nudge towards tighter before tightenning the bolts and the water pump trick is good for double checking. Trying to get a very specific tension with the auto tensioner is a big PITA compared to the old tensioner, though. If tensioning with the old tensioner, it's extra important to torque the roller retaining bolt to the full 33 ft/lb so the tension setting doesn't slip.

desertt5 · 12-14-2009, 08:30 AM

Thanks to all the good info.

Got everything back together using the method listed in the other thread.

Started it up and KABOOM !!!

OK, not really, belts sound good (no whine) and no slap. I will be keeping a close eye on them.

ScoobySteve · ScoobySteve's Garage

Even joking about things like that is likely to garner the wrath of the Porsche Gods...

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertt5

Thanks to all the good info.

Got everything back together using the method listed in the other thread.

Started it up and KABOOM !!!

OK, not really, belts sound good (no whine) and no slap. I will be keeping a close eye on them.

desertt5 · 12-14-2009, 11:31 AM

I think my Porsche god is happy with all the time I spnet under her hood this weekend. Even took the day off to play with her.

mikepellegrini · mikepellegrini's Garage

My kid and I use the twist method on all our cars. I have a Kriket but am unable to get consistent readings with it, so I quit using it.

The very best thread I've ever seen on belt tensioning is this one: Clark's Garage Message Board :: View topic - Belt tensioning without the tool

Like they say, it ain't rocket science...