racers?

[rscupper]

Prompted by some threads on this board I have to ask:

How many of you race (or time trial, autocross, etc...) for real? You know, turns & twists per Porsche philosophy.

How many are 1/4 mile funny car wanna-bees? You know, spend anything to try to beat a Mustang or Honda.

Just curious. Let 'er rip.

[1.2gees]

I auto-xed for some time, currently do track and auto-x (starting to do more and more track), and am planning to do time trials with a 944 turbo in the first half of next year (current car is an early 8v NA).

Have been to the drags to drive a couple of buddies cars/watch (300zx tt, turbo miata, etc.), never timed my 944 (couldn't bring myself to it) but would like to before I sell it, once.
Ahmet

[TheStig]

I did some autocrossing but the lack of safe brakes and degrading shocks performance has retired my car temporarily from it. On the other hand I have been doing streetracing on the side and taking part in some drag racing. Freeway racing has been my fancy though.

[Sergio]

I drive My Porsche and I race my Motorcycles

[Rollins]

Any kind of racing that is done on a PUBLIC street is ****ing stupid. Sorry, but all you mother ****ers who put ME in danger deserve to die, or at least get a ticket.

[Z-man]

I do both autox and DE. It is what our cars are meant for! Never did the 1/4, but wouldn't mind trying. Been seriously considering getting a 944/951 track only car, doing more DE's and eventually getting into Porsche Club racing. (Probably do time trialing before that!)

And yea: please don't race on the streets: that's the wrong place for speed.

-Zoltan.
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PCA NNJR
Click for more:

[dk944s2]

I attend about one autocross per month with my 1989 S2, in a street stock class because I got tired of quickly wearing out the "R"-compound tires I used to have on my 914 2.0. I do miss the grip, though--street stock is more of a "ballet," with more sliding and countersteering, where the R tires allow the car to track more or less where you steer it.

It's almost a crime if you DON'T autocross, time trial or race these cars...chassis is so balanced, rewarding and stable.

--Doug

[944jeff]

I'd be curious to know the pros/cons of autox vs track. Which costs more in terms of $ to do, wear and tear, etc. I would think that the track is easier on the car and it would be better exercise for her. On the other hand, would autox develop my handling skills faster? Opinions/recomendations for basically stock 44NA.

Thanks!
Jeff
(wanna go fast in a safe way)

[Z-man]

Jeff, good question. Here's my opinions:

1. Cost: well, on a seat time level, believe it or not, DE is less expensive than autox! I pay $30 for a day of autox (8 1 minute runs = $3.75/minute), and $200 for 2 days of driver's education (8 20 minute sessions = $1.25/minute). But when you factor in things like hotel say, travel expenses, and wear and tear, the track day is much more $$.

2. Wear and tear: while you are pushing your car to the limits at an autox, it's still less wear and tear than a track day. First off, it's one minute of pushing, then cool down time (15 minutes and up), while at DE, you're pushing your car for 20 minutes at a time, and at much higher speeds. Due to spinning your tires more, you're wearing out your tires a little more at autox, but not much. Believe me, your car can handle both quite well. You wear different components at autox vs. track: autox: it's mostly tires and suspension; track: it's engine/driveline, transmission, and suspension.

3. Experience: both autox and DE offer you venues to improve your driving skills. While autox is not a requirement for DE, I would strongly suggest attending autox first, then getting invovled in DE. You will apply everything you learned in autox at DE. By doing autox first, you will be able to learn more and progress quicker at DE events. Note: you can push your car more at an autox than at a DE, (less chance of real harm if you lose control at autox).

4. Other components: Autox offers friendly competition, which adds to the excitement of the event, while DE events aren't timed and there's no competition, even though passing is allowed. But, DE events are held on real-life racetracks, which have their own appeal.

So, what to do? I'd start with autox: it's cheaper in the long run, and usually closer to get to. But do get involved with DE too: these are things your car was made for!

-Z.
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1989 944S2
PCA NNJR
Click for more:

[944jeff]

Good advice and insight! Being behind the wheel of my 44 for 7 years now I consider myself a fairly good driver. But as much as I hate to admit i know I probably only know to make it handle half of what it's capable of. i guess that's why I've kept it so long in the first place. I want to master it before I get rid of it!

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by dk944s2
I attend about one autocross per month with my 1989 S2, in a street stock class
It's almost a crime if you DON'T autocross, time trial or race these cars...chassis is so balanced, rewarding and stable.

--Doug

So how do I find out about these autocross events???
Who do I contact for time, place, etc.?

Thanks

[Z-man]

Originally posted by scottmandue
So how do I find out about these autocross events???
Who do I contact for time, place, etc.?
Thanks

You can do a search in the web for local car clubs. Here's some national websites that have links to local events:

www.pca.org <-- Porsche club of America: both autox and DE check to see what's up in your region.
www.porscheclub.com <-- Porsche Owners Club
www.scca.org <-- look at Solo II competitions (that's autox) and regional links.
www.nasaproracing.com <-- club similar to SCCA: lots of regional events.
www.autox4u.com <-- metro NY/NJ/Conn/PA autox information, schedule, and technical information.

Technical information:
www.autocross.com
www.ghg.net/cmjfsl/index.html <- good guide on course layout!
www.chases.org/cars/cars.html <-- Randy Chase, national champs page: lots of hints & stuff.

Also: pick up a copy of Grassroots Motorsports magazine, or check their website: www.grassrootsmotorsports.com. They have lots of amateur level racing information.

And pick up this book: "Secrets of Solo Racing" by Henry Watts. It's the BIBLE of autox and time trials. Great resource.

That's just to get you started....
-Z.
PS: I am thrilled to see people interested in autox and DE!
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1989 944S2
PCA NNJR
Click for more:

[rscupper]

Zman, you're on the mark with the advice. I started a long time ago with PCA autoX but quickly moved to DE as autoX just didn't provide enough seat time (at least in our area). I mainly run time trials now. Not sure yet if I want to race.

We are fortunate here to have Willow Springs racetrack, with both the international raceway (~3.5 miles/9 turns - very fast) and the short track (~2.5 miles/~13 turns - very fun). I don't run with PCA as our local region is NOT into high performance driving events. Up 'til my project downed my car in Feb. '01, I drove with POC at Willow events. I know POC, and I believe all the clubs here, provide timing. BTW - I'm testing, I hope, my car for the first time this Sunday at the big track .

scottmandue - I'd suggest POC as Willow will be your 'home' track. They provide excellent instruction with an emphasis on safety. I hear San Diego PCA runs great parking lot DE events but I can't give you any firsthand advice there. I plan to drive next year with POC, NASA and depending on schedules maybe the Touring Car Club. Feel free to e-mail me if you want any more info.

Happy driving

[dk944s2]

Excellent comments by Z-Man. Let me add that things happen very quickly at an autocross...many different types of turns linked together closely. Situations often demand that you perform a quick downshift, say, in the middle of a left-right transition. On a racetrack, speeds are higher, but in general, there's a little more time to plan for your sequence of downshifts.

Both auto-X and DE events are a blast. There certainly is more glamour/cachet to racing around a real road course, but I do like the aspect of timed competition that an autocross provides.

It's a bit of a drive for you, but the San Diego region of PCA puts on GREAT autocrosses at Qualcomm stadium (used to be Jack Murphy stadium). Courses have been up to 1.9 miles long, with some pretty fast 3rd-gear turns. Next one is Dec. 8, and you need to be in he tech line before 7:30 a.m. Entry fee is $35, and you need to be a PCA member. Let me know if you need more info.

--Doug

P.S. You typically get about 10-12 runs at these events. And the organization and friendliness of the people is top-notch!

[RealRideRacing]

As far as our 944's go, they're almost all Race Cars. In 2000, we campaigned a 944na in the Touring Car Racing Association's Class 7 where out of 3 racers, it won 2 and came in 2nd in the third. We also entered our 944Turbo in the 2000 POC's Tribute To LeMans Endurance Race and qualified 20th out of 37 cars, which included countless GT2's, GT3's, GT3R's, RSR's, and much more. We were actually leading in class when I was hit by another car from behind, taking us out of contention for 30 minutes. We also entered the car in the Professional Racers Association where it ran the Los Angeles Downtown Race.
For the 2001 Season, we concentrated our efforts on our Mazda RX7 Race Programs, where we swept all Podium spots in the NASA-LA Region's Super Unlimited Sportscar Championship. Our Honda CRX also won the Pro-Sedan-2 Championship.
For the 2002 season, we're committed to the American Stockcar Challenge (Road Racing Chamiponship) with our new Monte Carlo Stockcar, in addition to continuing the RX-7's. But we may bring the 944 Turbo out of the cobwebs and run some POC races as well.
We recently picked up a daily beater 944na. It's a cosmetically perfect car, without so much as a parking lot ding in the paint! The interior is absolutely perfect as well, not a tear or worn spot anywhere in the car. Center armrest is perfect, door panels are as well. The only cosmetic imperfection is the dashboard.... you guys all know how common that is. We got the car with a blown headgasket which we fixed in 8 hours. Now it's going to be our spare car for whenever our daily drivers are in the shop or when we just want to putt around the track for some DE Event. We're also considering turning it into a Rental Ride Racecar. Just add rollcage, fire safety, kill switch, tires, seat and harness... Instant racecar!

By the way, we have a Message Forum for 944 Racing at our website: http://www.RealRide.com
Stop by a say Hello.

Regards,
David
PENNYWEB/REALRIDE.COM RACING
http://www.RealRide.com

PS: Rollins,
I completely agree with your comments about Street Racing.... though I would have attempted to put it a bit more eloquently. Street Racing is nothing more than a Sniper in a Crowd, doesn't take any driving ability and even fewer brain cells.

[eimkeith]

AutoX, will track when my financial situation eventually improves.

[Dave951M]

Autox first, you'll learn a lot about your car there that translates to the track. They are two different types of events and will wear the car in different ways. I'm with the rest, do a few autox events, then move over to track. You'll probably still find yourself going to autox though since they're so much fun and much more plentiful than track events.

[EGSMachine]

The Porsche hasn't seen anything yet. i have run the BMW in autoX, and i had a 96 Pontiac Sunfire i did DE and AuotX with. The 944 is gonna be a (44 Cup car in NASA next season on the east coast.
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