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Endat, check carefully look for the broken cam sprocket teeth or any other debris related to the meltdown. Fragments can wedge themselves in the smallest of crevices or find the way from the head down the oil passages then into the oil pan or other hard to reach or see places in the block or crank area. If you elect to replace the head make sure that the numbers stamped on the cam caps match the number stamped on the head. If the numbers don't match up then don't consider the head and look for one with matching numbers.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:49 PM
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I hope you get it back up and running!

Jackson
Old 02-10-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Himan View Post
commdiver has a 16v for $850 as well, this is a super good price, normally 2700-4000. Looks in good shape.
Man, that's a steal! Why can't I ever have $850 just sitting around waiting for times like this?!?

But Endat, don't lose hope. You have the hard parts taken care of...near perfect cylinders and the head rebuilt. The rest is just lots (and lots and lots and lots) of cleaning, inspection, measuring critical parts such as crank journals and connecting rods, new bearings, a whole lotta gaskets, and steady nerves to get it all back together. It's not hard if you have any mechanical sense. My rebuild a year ago was my first full engine rebuild and it went together very nicely. Just study the factory manual, use lots of clean rags, think three times before doing anything, and don't try to do too much at once...and remember, nothing ever fell off the floor.

My recommendation is to:
1. clean the external of the block as well as you can before disassembly (alternately, you can just take the parts to a machine shop to have them hot tanked...easier and more effective, but more $$).

2. Inspect all of the internals carefully for obvious problems. On disassembly, follow the torque order in reverse and loosen up in stages. This is mostly important for the head and the main bearing girdle.

3. Take crank, rods, pistons, and block to machine shop along with the tolerances from the factory manual to the machine shop to be measured and evaluated for further action (alternately, you can measure them yourself if you have the tools...minimally, have the crank, rods and pistons measured.)

4. I recommend at least having the crank polished and checked for straightness. I had my complete bottom end balanced and I think it was worth the $250 to have it done.

5. decide what you are going to do with the cylinders. These cylinders are very durable and don't go out of round or taper very easily, especially at lower miles and if they look that good. Always best to measure, but I wouldn't worry about those too much. If you are going to re-ring, I highly recommend having the cylinders re-lapped. I had successfully done it myself here ( Project 924 S engine replacement ), but you may opt to have a shop do it. Warning: re-ringing these cylinders without the prep work is risky. Some have had them seat ok and some never stopped smoking. You have been warned. I highly recommend Deves rings. They broke in very well and very quickly. My compression is in the 160's, they never smoked, and oil consumption is nearly 0 now. Pelican Parts - Product Information: DV-2166-STD There is another part offered that says it fits the 944S, 1989 944, and 944S2, but that's impossible, since the 2.5L S is a 100mm bore like the 8v and the 89/S2 are 104mm bore. The link is to the 2.5L 8v part. After cylinders are done, check ring end gaps by sliding them into the cylinder from the top and squared off with a piston and measuring the gaps with a feeler gage. Assign a set of rings to each cylinder, check/set the gaps for each set, and put them in separate labeled sandwitch bags.

6. Buy parts. You'll probably forget something or something will turn up later no matter how hard you try to remember everything. Use genuine Locktite 574 case sealant for the crank girdle, oil pump, and ballance shaft covers. Pelican Parts - Product Information: 000-043-010-00-M258

7.If you opted to clean everything yourself, do it while youre waiting for parts/shop work. Use a degreaser like super clean or purple power and flush out all of the oil and water passages both ways. Chase them with stuff like pipe cleaners, etc. as much as you can to ensure they are clear of debris. Make sure you flush the degreaser thoroughly. It is slightly corrosive to aluminum. Make sure the oil cooler is flushed out thoroughly. Look in every nook and cranny for foreign materials. You will likely be doing this a couple times just to make sure, especially if you lap your own cylinders. Not a trace of the AN-30 paste should be left behind. It's very abrasive. Spray critical parts with WD-40 and wrap them securely in plastic bags to keep dirt off while you wait for assembly. Never leave them dry and ready to rust!

8. Assembly. Take your time and think logically about the sequence of this part. Usually, you start with the crank and work your way out. Use lots of assembly lube, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN... (highly recommend these for final assembly http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=PEL-KM34155&catalog_description=Kimwipes%20Cleanroom%20Cloths% 2C%20%34%2E%35%22x%38%2E%35%22%2C%20%32%38%30%20co unt%20 paper towels and shop towels will drive you nuts with the lint). The bearing bores must be spotless before installing bearing shells and the bearing shells must be carefully installed fully seated and with the locating tabls matching their slots. Don't even touch the bearing surfaces if possible. Plastigage the bearings just as a double check, even if you had the parts proffesionally measured. ( http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=PEL-PLAST-PG1&catalog_description=Plastigage%20Green%2C%20for%20 clearances%20%30%2E%30%30%31%20to%20%30%2E%30%30%3 3%20inches Plastigage is done DRY, before assembly lube. Do not move the parts when using it or it will disrupt the measurement and also possibly damage the bearings). These bearings (and all hydrodynamic bearings) are very vulnerable to foreign materials and lack of lubrication. Read carefully in the manual for correctly sealing the girdle with 574. Always wipe down gasket surfaces and bearing shell bores with acetone and a lint free cloth right before sealing/assembling. Use a reliable torque wrench (<-very important), and follow all torque sequences and values. Make sure the slotted main bearing shells are on the upper (block) section, NOT the bottom (girdle). Torque girdle, check thrust bearing clearance, install pistons/connecting rods (use lots of oil on the pistons, rings, and cylinders for this part...straight 30 weight convensional is best). Install oil pump. Install oil pan. Install balance shafts and oil cooler assemblies. From there it should start looking like an engine again and further assembly should be straightforward.

9. Startup and break in. Crank with no spark plugs and fuel disabled until oil pressure comes up. Break in gets a little controversial, but I highly recommend the "drive it hard" route after doing research and also having it work very successfully for my motor. Don't start until you are able to immediately drive it around for at least 10-15, preferably 30 miles straight not sitting in traffic, and of course drive gently until it warms up. Many of the 911 guys recommend this method and you can see it here. Given my knowledge on the properties and workings of Alusil cylinders, this method makes 110% sense and works. Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power Run up and down between 2500 and 5000 rpm in any gear, esp 2nd and 3rd, with as much WOT as possible, equally ballanced with closed throttle deceleration without using the brakes. The WOT loads the rings up hard to break in quickly while the cylinder is still rough, and the vacuum from closed throttle helps cool them with the oil that is pulled past them to flush away the material being worn off. I would increase the rpm ceiling to 6000 after the first 10-15 miles, especially considering the power curve of the 16v. Do this for at least the first 30 miles and change the oil. Try to drive it hard alot for at least the first 1500 miles. About 80-90% of break in will happen in this time, but full break in can take at least 5000 and as long as 15K. Very important! Use conventional oil for break in and for the first 5000 miles! The synthetic oils will not allow the rings to seat. Change at 30 miles, 1000 miles, 3000 miles, and lastly at 5000. Then resume normal oil and maintenance routines. I also highly recommend one of these. FilterMAG: Magnetic Oil Filters finish the Job Your Filter Started. I used one since the first run on my rebuild and it caught a noticable amount of metal after break in. It's a great thing to prolong the life of the engine in the long run as well.

Oh...got carried away again. Hope this can get you started. Good luck. I know how you feel.
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Last edited by HondaDustR; 02-11-2011 at 04:50 AM..
Old 02-10-2011, 08:03 PM
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To remove the clutch fork there is the rod that holds it in place. There is a bolt that screws in the bellhousing to prevent the rod from working it's self loose. Then get a bolt with the right pitch thread it into the rod and work the rod out.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:24 PM
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Hey You know you don't have to put a 16 valve engine back in. You can get a cheap 8 valve engine, or put a 8 valve head on.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:34 PM
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I hope everything goes well with it. Reminds me of my 924S that ended up totalled cause of a careless person...

Best of luck and take your time. When you rush these things, stupid things tend to happen.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid View Post
Hey You know you don't have to put a 16 valve engine back in. You can get a cheap 8 valve engine, or put a 8 valve head on.
??

not even close. you can reuse the crank and rods, but the pistons are totally different. if you were to swap in an 8v head you'd have to replace everything from the wiring to the throttle cable to the MAF mount to the exhaust.

It would be just as "easy" to put an LS1 in it.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid View Post
Hey You know you don't have to put a 16 valve engine back in. You can get a cheap 8 valve engine, or put a 8 valve head on.
Downgrading is never ideal.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:27 AM
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It was evident that this sale was by a scammer. You could always put a 951 engine in there and follow in my footsteps! :P
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by carlege View Post
Downgrading is never ideal.
But is cheaper. They're tons of 500$ running 944's on craigslist.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaDustR View Post
9. Startup and break in. Crank with no spark plugs and fuel disabled until oil pressure comes up. Break in gets a little controversial, but I highly recommend the "drive it hard" route after doing research and also having it work very successfully for my motor. Don't start until you are able to immediately drive it around for at least 10-15, preferably 30 miles straight not sitting in traffic, and of course drive gently until it warms up. Many of the 911 guys recommend this method and you can see it here. Given my knowledge on the properties and workings of Alusil cylinders, this method makes 110% sense and works. Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power Run up and down between 2500 and 5000 rpm in any gear, esp 2nd and 3rd, with as much WOT as possible, equally ballanced with closed throttle deceleration without using the brakes. The WOT loads the rings up hard to break in quickly while the cylinder is still rough, and the vacuum from closed throttle helps cool them with the oil that is pulled past them to flush away the material being worn off. I would increase the rpm ceiling to 6000 after the first 10-15 miles, especially considering the power curve of the 16v. Do this for at least the first 30 miles and change the oil. Try to drive it hard alot for at least the first 1500 miles. About 80-90% of break in will happen in this time, but full break in can take at least 5000 and as long as 15K. Very important! Use conventional oil for break in and for the first 5000 miles! The synthetic oils will not allow the rings to seat. Change at 30 miles, 1000 miles, 3000 miles, and lastly at 5000. Then resume normal oil and maintenance routines. I also highly recommend one of these. FilterMAG: Magnetic Oil Filters finish the Job Your Filter Started. I used one since the first run on my rebuild and it caught a noticable amount of metal after break in. It's a great thing to prolong the life of the engine in the long run as well.
I think I just found some motivation! I thought I was gonna have to wait a few thousand miles to drive it hard... THANKS for the info

I still cant get that damn clutch fork out though.. I dont have good visibility with the engine on the table, where do I look? I might buy a flashlight and look in some of the holes, but nothing on the internet about this has pictures... what do I need to knock loose? I have a feeling hitting random things with a hammer isnt the best idea
Old 02-16-2011, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid View Post
Hey You know you don't have to put a 16 valve engine back in. You can get a cheap 8 valve engine, or put a 8 valve head on.
Someone told me once that putting the less powerful engine in my car with longer gearing would make acceleration slower than a base 944.. on the other hand, the 190HP engine paired with the short-geared trans from an 8v 944 would make it more rocket-like

Besides, I like the DOHC engine better because the spark plugs are easier to get at

Last edited by Endat; 02-16-2011 at 02:26 AM..
Old 02-16-2011, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by doabarrelroll View Post
It was evident that this sale was by a scammer. You could always put a 951 engine in there and follow in my footsteps! :P
I researched that option too, but I had 2 problems with it.. 1). the complexity the turbo adds installation cost and more potential for failure 2). putting a turbocharged engine in a car that doesnt have 4 piston brembo brakes or good suspension is almost asking for trouble (for a hard driver like me)

The 2 engines I considered were the 3.0L S2 engine and the 3.0L 968 engine.. and of course an LS1, but the adaptor kit alone costs a little over $3k, so that's out of the question.
Old 02-16-2011, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endat View Post
I think I just found some motivation! I thought I was gonna have to wait a few thousand miles to drive it hard... THANKS for the info

I still cant get that damn clutch fork out though.. I dont have good visibility with the engine on the table, where do I look? I might buy a flashlight and look in some of the holes, but nothing on the internet about this has pictures... what do I need to knock loose? I have a feeling hitting random things with a hammer isnt the best idea
You can see the end of the pivot pin on the lower passenger side of the bellhousing. There's a bolt that you have to remove that locks it in place. The end you can see is threaded for a standard M6 bolt, which you can use to help extract it. If you follow the axis of the pin to the other side, there should be a hole through which you can see a stop tab for the pin and the other end of the pin itself. If you can't get it out using a bolt on the other end, use a punch and hammer through this end against the pin to drive it out. If having the bellhousing off the motor would help, the pressure plate screws can be removed through the starter hole and the whole assembly will come off.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:23 AM
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I also found my clutch fork pivot shaft only possible to remove by using a long punch on the opposite end. Worked great this way...but if you do this be careful to align the punch carefully with the end of the pivot shaft, so that you are not inadvertently banging on the stop pin!
Old 02-16-2011, 08:17 AM
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...and to reply to the spirit of this post - my own 944 story is also somewhat of a saga, which I will share at some later date. In the meantime....good luck, and keep at it!
Old 02-16-2011, 08:19 AM
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I still dont have any idea what anyone is talking about with this clutch fork thing... i removed a 10mm bolt on the outside of the bellhousing and i beat the fork with a chisel and and a sledgehammer.. it wouldnt budge.. so i tightened the 10mm bolt back in... until it broke. there is no other visible bolt unless its inside the bellhousing, in which case I cant see it anyway because I dont have a flashlight...

So I opted to remove the pressure plate instead, and I soon ran into a problem there too.... 3 of the bolts are 6mm hex, but the others are some kind of 12 point torx and the auto parts store doesnt have anything for it... this isnt starting off very well

Last edited by Endat; 02-16-2011 at 09:20 AM..
Old 02-16-2011, 09:16 AM
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Ok, I found the pin thing you're talking about with the help of a weird blue lightbulb...
Old 02-16-2011, 09:42 AM
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Once you get the pivot pin out, check the bearing surfaces on the pin (one at each end), if the surfaces are not SMOOTH, you will need to order a new pin. These pins are damaged fairly easily by old nasty pivot bearings. Also replace the two pivot bearings in the clutch release arm. Pivot pin and bearings are available from our great friends right here at pelican parts.

Pivot pin p/n: 951.116.133.00-M260 ($34)
pivot bearings (2): 999.201.213.00-M40 ($8 each)

Good Luck, just take your time and STOP if you begin tho feel the frustration level rise. When you're done, you can feel the satisfaction of bringing another great Porsche back from the terminally ill.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:03 AM
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SUCCESS! I ended up drilling out the smaller pin and hammering the bigger one out with a screwdriver.. I made a video I'll stick on youtube later in case anyone else needs a visual.


Now I need to figure out how to get this pressure plate off... what kinda bolt is that? 3 of them were 6mm hex, but the others... theyre like (torx * 2)
Old 02-16-2011, 11:09 AM
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