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Good call, I would think the same thing on the clutch disk.

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Originally Posted by HondaDustR View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but being a spring centered disk, the clutch has been replaced at least once already. It should have some life left in it. Those bolts should not be triple square. Replace them with the allen hex heads.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:17 AM
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I suddenly remember the PO telling me that the clutch was new when I was buying the car.. funny the kind of things you forget when the engine is broken. It was kind of abused after it was installed, the PO was selling the wheels that were on this car separately, and the tyres were shredded!! I'll be happy to get 50k out of the clutch. Anyways, I started disassembling the engine on the table:




I had to clean a lot of clutch material out of the flywheel... burnouts must be fun


I took off the #2 rod cap to inspect the bearing.. after I wiped the oil away, this is what I found:



Do I need a special tool to get this flywheel off? Also, should the belts and pulleys at the front of the engine be removed first?


OIL PAN SHOW & TELL TIME

Top-left: metal shavings
Bottom-left: metal chunks, probably from the FIRST head explosion
Center: Camshaft tooth
Top-right: Glass...
Bottom-right: rubber



This car's history: well cared for, engine fire, head explosion, repaired (head patched and wiring harness taped back together), new clutch, not well cared for, lots of burnouts, head explosion.... ME

More to come...

Last edited by Endat; 02-25-2011 at 04:27 AM..
Old 02-25-2011, 04:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
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That's quite an assortment you've got there. I'm surprised there isn't any loose change, a few bottle caps, gum wrappers, and maybe the VCR remote that's been lost forever sitting in there, too.

You need to get yourself an engine stand. It was the best $50 I spent on my project by far. The 3 wheeled ones are ok (what I got), but the 4 wheel ones would be alot more stable. Rolling a heavy block around on a table (or the ground) is a pain and makes it harder to keep clean. Also, the block material is actually quite brittle and can chip or crack extraneous areas easier than you think if it takes a fall or a hard knock against something.

For the flywheel, you kind of have to get creative. You could use a couple old pressure plate bolts and a long metal pipe or similar with corresponding holes drilled to use as a holding tool. I think I just wedged my breaker bar between two scrap bolts in the same manner. I would remove the front pulleys first so you can use whatever flywheel holding contraption you come up with to be able to remove the front bolt.
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1987 silver 924S made it to 225k mi! Sent to the big garage in the sky

Last edited by HondaDustR; 02-25-2011 at 09:39 AM..
Old 02-25-2011, 09:32 AM
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I managed to fashion something out of what i think is a sway bar link, an allen wrench, a bolt from the pressure plate, and the engine stand


Is there a special trick to getting these balance shaft pulleys off?


also, i got the flywheel bolts off but the flywheel isnt coming off..
Old 02-25-2011, 02:35 PM
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Get behind the flywheel with a prybar. It just fits kind of tightly around the flywheel boss. You need the balance shaft pin spanner wrench to hold the sprockets.
Pelican Parts - Product Information: PEL-TOL-P232

You could probably rig something up to work, but it's one of those tools worth buying if you plan to ever have to do any work on these cars. Makes the job very easy.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:21 PM
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Check. Just ordered one, I guess Pelican will ship it Monday. In the meantime, I can go ahead and remove the rods/pistons and start getting this thing ready for a hot tank. I'm marking each piston with a sharpie as I pull it out in order: 1, 2, 3, 4

Thanks for all the help so far. This car has been sitting long enough, its feels good to be making progress again


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Old 02-25-2011, 10:22 PM
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What I did was keep everything in marked freezer bags, so when stuff started coming apart, I could keep everything together. That way, if the marking rubbed off the part, it wouldn't matter. Sometimes it's between hard and impossible to reliably mark parts that are oily or dirty. When sensitive parts started coming apart, like piston and rod assemblies, each part would go into its own small marked bag, and all of those would go into one big marked bag for organisation and to protect them from dingin each other up. It starts mattering more once stuff is cleaned and ready for reassembly and installation. Cleanliness is extremely important at that time.

It's also great for grouping screws, washers, seals, etc for each sub assembly such as balance shaft housings, oil cooler, oil pump, etc. so they don't get lost or mixed up. It will be nearly impossible to tell what's what a month from now.



Quote:
Lots of ziploc bags are just as essential to an engine rebuild as anything else!
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1987 silver 924S made it to 225k mi! Sent to the big garage in the sky

Last edited by HondaDustR; 02-26-2011 at 02:41 AM..
Old 02-26-2011, 02:33 AM
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plastic bags make sense.. I had one hell of a time trying to find the right bolts for the engine stand (lowes had everything except the one i needed), but I got it configured and tightened up:




Then I stuck it on the stand... this was pretty easy with a couple of friends: one to hold the engine stand while me and another lift the block off the table and stick it into the stand. I can easily lift the engine block from a civic or smaller 4 cylinder, so it was weird needing help to wrestle this monster into place



WE'RE MAKING GROUND HERE
Old 02-27-2011, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endat View Post
Objective #1 - Get the engine onto the engine stand.
Old 02-27-2011, 04:33 AM
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Don't give up keep going your halfway there & myto you.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:09 AM
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Hehe...just wait until you get the crank out and you'll know why it's so heavy, and why a lightened flywheel isn't a bad upgrade. As someone aptly put it some time ago, you'd think it was a crank out of an industrial diesel motor if it weren't for the Porsche part number. Even the rods and pistons are fairly heavy altogether. Stuff adds up fast on these motors, and even the bare block is not easy to move around. At least it's not an old cast iron V8. Those things weigh easily twice what a complete 944 motor weighs with accessories.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:37 PM
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Regarding getting those sprockets off - the pin wrench is the best but I've use a pair of long handled 90 degree pliers. The kind where the jaws have a 90 degree bend.

Good luck on your build. From what I'm seeing you have what it takes to get it done (tools, experience, attitude, etc.).
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:25 AM
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Thanks a lot! It's always nice to see encouragement from other enthusiasts

So I got the pistons out, but #3 was being a REAL .. the bearing cap was REALLY hard to get off and the piston itself had to be forced from the cylinder.. turns out, the rings were stuck to the piston


I have spare rods (unfortunately) so I decided "whatever" and started oiling up the pistons for their alone time with the freezer bags. I marked the pistons and bags while leaving the rods connected


At the same time, my collection of parts on the floor has doubled! I'm keeping all the bolts inside the assemblies from which they came


So until my pin spanner wrench arrives in the mail, I have nothing left to do.. so the engine sits under a cover



THAT IS unless someone wants to help me install the new wiring harness hehe jk
Old 03-02-2011, 12:34 AM
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THANKS PELICAN PARTS!!! My aftermarket balance shaft holding bar (pin wrench) arrived with some nice Pelican Parts stickers and jelly beans


This allowed me to remove my balance shaft pulleys:


After that I removed the plastic rear belt cover and my water pump... this is where I got kinda worried, because I was reading a recent POST where it turns out, a new water pump is around $600.... this pump looks kinda weathered, but I'd like to re-use it if i can, because my budget wont allow for another part that expensive. Is there a way to test or rebuild this?


I'm gonna need new W/P bolts at the very LEAST:


I'm GUESSING that, at this point, I need to remove the lower balance shaft bearing carrier so I can remove my oil pump, but I suspect it would be a good idea to clean the block a little externally:


I also need to find a way to test/rebuild my water pump AND oil pump... it would be great if I could find a kit to rebuild them, like I did with my Throttle Body:


Thanks for all the help,
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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I wouldn't reuse that. Keep it for an emergency spare or for core exchange. Pelican sells rebuilt water pumps that are pretty good as far as rebuilds go. Some people don't trust rebuilds in general, but I've had decent luck with the ones from Pelican.
Pelican Parts - Product Information: R-106-021-04X

Alternatively, you could buy a brand new one.
Pelican Parts - Product Information: 951-106-021-10-M59

You're lucky those WP bolts didn't take the threads with them as rusty as they are. Use lots of antiseize for reassembly. The oil pumps are generally non-servicable aside from replacing the drive sleeve, front main seal, and disassembling it and resealing the inner gear housing with 574 as described in the factory manual. They usually last a long time, though. I don't think I've ever read of anyone needing to replace one. You may want to just pop it apart and have a look to make sure nothing's pitted or scoured from debris.

Where's the jelly beans?!? I never get jelly beans from them!

I cleaned my block before anything came off of it so I wouldn't get dirt, solvent, water, etc into it. You'll want to be careful, or just wait to take the bare block to be hot tanked at a machine shop...or just wait until its completely stripped bare so flushing any dirt and runoff out of the inside is no problem.
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1987 silver 924S made it to 225k mi! Sent to the big garage in the sky

Last edited by HondaDustR; 03-03-2011 at 11:55 AM..
Old 03-03-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjs77 View Post
I may be stating the obvious here but I have read all the posts and didn't see any mention of Clark's Garage which has proven to be in invaluable resource for me. You should check it out if you haven already done so.

Clark's Garage Home Page
Thanks for the tip, CG doesnt have many pics so I end up reading everything about 6 times (im a visual learner). But I will difinately use it when im putting this beast back together

BTW: I NURBURGRING SABINE TOO!!! She really spins my crankshaft
Old 03-03-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaDustR View Post
Pelican sells rebuilt water pumps that are pretty good as far as rebuilds go. Some people don't trust rebuilds in general, but I've had decent luck with the ones from Pelican.
Pelican Parts - Product Information: R-106-021-04X

Alternatively, you could buy a brand new one.
Pelican Parts - Product Information: 951-106-021-10-M59

You're lucky those WP bolts didn't take the threads with them as rusty as they are. Use lots of antiseize for reassembly. The oil pumps are generally non-servicable aside from replacing the drive sleeve, front main seal, and disassembling it and resealing the inner gear housing with 574 as described in the factory manual. They usually last a long time, though, but you may want to just pop it apart and have a look to make sure nothing's pitted or scoured from debris.

Where's the jelly beans?!? I never get jelly beans from them!

I cleaned my block before anything came off of it so I wouldn't get dirt, solvent, water, etc into it. You'll want to be careful, or just wait to take the bare block to be hot tanked at a machine shop.
I guess those are my options, eh? The bearings seem smooth, but I don't know about all this crud I see on the water propeller (if thats what its called).. that would definitely affect hydrodynamics at the very least... The rebuilt water pumps have to have some parts/procedures behind them... I can rebuild them if I were given the correct parts and instructions.

I have 2 oil pumps now, the one that came from the block I bought off many944s and the one that's soon to come off my engine. But like I said before, everything going back onto this engine is new so that I dont have to worry about it for a LONG time... noting pisses me off more than unnecessary repairs after a complete rebuild

I may end up buying the rebuilt pelican part you mentioned, but I dont know how a core would work with me having 2 extra...
Old 03-03-2011, 11:53 AM
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This is the "welcome package" I got from Pelican.. it was my first order, so I guess they have a new way to welcome people into their projects:
Old 03-03-2011, 11:56 AM
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They don't care what you send back as a core, just so it's rebuildable, ie not completely rusted/frozen/cracked/pieces busted off/modified. I'm sure if you could find the right parts, you could rebuild the pump yourself, but that's just the problem, aint it? I'm not sure I could trust myself to find exactly the right stuff AND get it all put together correctly, given the costs involved in a water pump failure on these motors. Notice the new pump I linked is much less than $600 and appears to come with a thermostat and all gaskets if you don't mind an extra hundred or so dollars.

A new oil pump is going to cost big bucks, since the only place you can get them is special ordered through Porsche. Pelican Parts - Product Information: 944-107-014-11-OEM
$770, assuming they still have one. Reuse is very common for these motors. Hopefully someone else can comment on that.

They always send stickers. the jelly beans must be a new thing, as I didn't get any when I first ordered.

How do have 400 posts and this is your first time ordering from Pelican?
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1987 silver 924S made it to 225k mi! Sent to the big garage in the sky

Last edited by HondaDustR; 03-03-2011 at 12:09 PM..
Old 03-03-2011, 12:03 PM
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The block is pretty bare now...


I remember reading that the crankshaft girdle needs to be loosened in a certain order, but I cant find it in the workshop manuals


Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaDustR View Post
How do have 400 posts and this is your first time ordering from Pelican?
I have been getting parts from porsche, ebay, craigslist, and other people from the board.. i was saving PP for the re-assembly process
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:18 PM
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