944 engine choice

[honerboys]

hi - so my son and i are looking for an engine to replace the blown one in this 944 - i received answers saying any 2.5 naturally aspirated engine would work - then i talked to a local guy who rebuilds these - he said the crankshaft on a car with power steering would be different than one without power steering - is this true - also if it is true which cars and years have power steering and which don't - or can i just change out the steering rack to a non power steering one - thanks

[nynor]

the have a different crank? they might have a different pulley setup, but it seems a bit over the top to have different cranks for power steering.

you can swap out the steering rack.

[Pettybird]

So what year do you have? Only '83 was non-power. I have a pair of cars, and the crank P/S pulley falls off in your hand when you take the crank bolt out. The crank IS different for an '83, but it's internal.

[Laptop_geek]

What was the difference in the crank in '83?

I've got an engine out of my '83 I'm getting ready to pull if your interested.

[doabarrelroll]

The part number for all 944 engine crankshafts is 944.102.015.13. They are all identical.

It looks like the front pulley is different though. They have one available on DC, it must just be slightly different to not include spacing for the power steering pulley.

If I were you, I would put in a later model engine in it, budget permitting. There were a number of improvements done over the years, timing belt auto tensioner, oil pan baffling, alternator, cam has a slight amount of overlap, etc.

Good luck with the build!

[HondaDustR]

I thought the 83 cranks were just a bit shorter on the very end. I saw something about that somewhere. I'll have to see if I can find it later. I know there were 2 different front washers.

As for the engine, any engine will physically fit, including the 968 motor, but the 968 motor needs a different bellhousing, and maybe even the driveshaft and tranny. I think it can be adapted to the standard bellhousing by using a 944 S2 flywheel and clutch, but I can't remember. If it were me, I'd try to find a 16v 944S motor. It's about 30 more hp and breathes a bit better at higher rpm. The motor from the 89 944 is a 2.7L, basicly a 2.5L bored out 4mm...fairly rare motor, but lots of torque. The 944S2 would be the best of both. Lots of torque and 16v, but a good one is not cheap or easy to find. A halfway decent 2.5L 8v should be pretty easy to find for not too much money. The 88 year has higher compression pistons for about 12 more hp over the earlier ones. A turbo motor will fit, but then you have all the extra work of adding all of the turbo specific equipment.

[honerboys]

so will i be able to attach the power steering pump mount, which seems to be bolted to the front of the lower balance shaft housing, onto an 83 non power steering engine - will there be threaded holes for it - or will i have to replace the lower balance shaft housing with the one from my current engine - i know all this sounds nit-picky but i have a local guy who has a running 83 engine in good shape and i just need to make sure this will all fit together before i buy it - i don't want to end up with an engine i can't use - would it be preferable to just wait until i find an 85 engine to match my car - thanks to all of you for your advice i really do appreciate it

[HondaDustR]

Here is what I remember seeing in the FSM.



It says pulley, but I can't figure out what they mean. It looks like the front bolt washer, of which B is like the ones I have always seen. Either way, it eludes to the fact that the journal the sprockets, etc. mount to is shorter on the early motors that didn't have power steering. Keep in mind, the power steering pump drive pulley does not bolt to anything and is not keyed. It is just a formed metal part that is sandwitched between the front bolt washer (presumably what is displayed in the pic above) and the accessory belt pulley.

Here's what the front assembly with the power steering pump pulley looks like.



I had made this awhile ago to illustrate how the pulley can get pinched between the recessed washer and the end of the crank, preventing the force of the front bolt from transmitting through all of the sprockets and pulleys to clamp the oil pump drive sleeve. You can see, on a power steering equiped car, the crank protrudes just enough past all the rest of the hardware up front to fit the PS pulley around, and the stepped front washer reaches around the end of the crank to clamp it all together. The 83 crank may not have that extra bit of length. It would be easy to check with a flywheel lock and a large breaker bar to remove the front crank bolt.

[honerboys]

ok i understand the pulley/washer situation - now i need to know if the actual power steering pump mount can just be bolted to a non p/s engine - will the non p/s engine have all the threaded holes in the right place - it seems like the p/s pump bracket bolts go right through the lower balance shaft cover holes, but there is also a side support for the p/s bracket that is attached to the balance shaft cover - i don't know if these holes are also on the balance shaft cover of a non p/s engine and also they are larger bolts than than the rest of the balance shaft cover bolts - thanks

[HondaDustR]

The front balance shaft flange will transfer over, and the extra bracket is separate from the balance shaft housing, but should swap over no problem after removing those bolts. Those bolts are that size regardless of balance shaft housing or power steering bracket setup. You may need the bolts on your original motor if the 83 bolts are shorter. The balance shaft implementation on these motors is one of those Porsche things you just stare at in awe wondering why they had to make it as complicated as they did. There were actually 3 bolt configurations over the years for the lower one. http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-14.htm The diagram at the end of the article shows different bolt spacing for the 4 M8 bolts between the early and the later housings. I don't know if it's actually like that, but it would certainly cause a problem if they were. Just make sure you never swap around balance shafts or housings between different engine blocks. They are machined/balanced to their own motor.

[Vicious]

83' cranks ARE different only in the fact that they are forged and not cast like rest

[honerboys]

thanks to all and especially to hondadustr who went that extra mile - we'regoing to try this engine - will let you know how it turns out

[HondaDustR]

Originally Posted by Vicious

83' cranks ARE different only in the fact that they are forged and not cast like rest

All 944 cranks are forged. The special thing about the 83 is the rods are sinter forged, not cast like the later NA's. The turbo motors also have forged rods.

Also, in reading doabarellroll's post, almost all of the good stuff from a late motor, except for the auto tensioner, can swap over. If your old motor is an 87+, IIRC, the cam will be slightly better, and will work fine on the 83. You can tell a late spec cam by the part number ending in 09 rather than 05. The late oil pan is better and also will swap over. The auto tensioner has advantages, but I didn't miss having it after my motor swap. It doesn't really get the tension right on its own, and tweeking the tension so it's just right can be a pain on it.