A/C Cool but not cold

[billy mild]

My car still has R12 in it. The system did work last year no problem. Would it be a bad idea to get a set of R12 gauges and then get a can of R12 to try and top off the A/C? What are most of you doing about this?

[968 GUY]

Freeze 12 is available over counter, not R12. If it just needs topping off, it may not be too expensive at the shop, but most want to try to get you to convert to R134.

[billy mild]

I was thinking of getting a can of r12 off of craigslist?

[uvachief]

It is not illegal, outside of CA, to sell and install R12 refrigerant. An AC shop can still do it for you. Check your compressor for leaks with a black light. See green dye, you have a leaky compressor. Also, check your floor well dampers to make sure the clips haven't come undone or are about to. If they are not fully attached to the clips and closing properly, you won't get a good blast of cold air through the side and center vents. This is a common problem. I don't see the year of your 944 and whether it is a NA or a turbo. See if the air is colder from the center vents than the side vents. If so, you may have a vacuum hose that is leaking or has come away. Check your vacuum routing diagram under the hood and check your connections. Replace any worn vacuum lines with silicone hoses found on Pelican. You can color coordinate them to help you route them better.

[uvachief]

Amazon.com: Freeze-12 Refrigerant R12 AC Replacement 12oz. Cans: Automotive

[uvachief]

A11 REFRIGERANT SOURCES AND PRICES FOR R11,R12, R22, R502, R134a, R113, R123, R409A, R408A, R500, R404A

List of who can actually purchase R12 now.

THE REFRIGERANT STORE
- WARNING -
Federal Law provides that ONLY the following can purchase refrigerants.

Certified Refrigerant Technicians approved by the E.P.A. under Section 608 of the Clean Air Act.
Purchasers of refrigerant for resale to a Certified Refrigerant Technician.
Purchasers of R-134a, R-410A, and refrigerant supplies do not need a license.
Automotive Certified Refrigerant Technicians approved by the E.P.A. under Section 609 of the Clean Air Act (R-12 only).

[djnolan]

Absolutely don't mix R-12 and freeze12. And R-134a works pretty well in these cars since the car's interior is small and the compressor and system is fairly beefy.

[rjai0972]

do not convert your car to r134.... i wouldnt, my recommendation is just look for a can...

[mattdavis11]

My recommendation is to find the leak and do what ever you want. If the fan(s) and the condenser are doing what they need to do, it doesn't matter what refrigerant you have.

AFAIK, you can't keep the R-12 from venting to the atmosphere as it is, but if you take it to a shop, they can't let it leave with a leak. Shaft seal.

[billy mild]

I have seen quite a bit of r12 for sale locally so no issue there. Problem is I don't have any gauges to use with R12. It was blowing out 60-65 degree air temps. So I think one 12 oz can would take care of my issue.

Would it be bad to get a can and a hose and squirt a little r12 in there?

[gmorken]

Originally Posted by rjai0972

do not convert your car to r134.... i wouldn't, my recommendation is just look for a can...

After determining my condenser had a leak, I made the jump from R12 to R134 at the same time as the new condenser was installed. Even with the heat of the Florida summers, the car cools just fine and its been converted for over 13 months now. I'm not sure why people prefer to stay the R12 route - is it that much better? (note: my a/c wasn't working when I bought the car so never got to experience the R12 based cooling) .

[mattdavis11]

It could, it might make the leak larger.

[mattdavis11]

R12 worked damn well. 134 works just as well if the pressures are right. If you bumper to bumper your way to work, stay with R12.

[rjai0972]

I've read tons of things on why not to switch, I've gone through it, my a/c never worked the same

[mattdavis11]

It's all a bunch of BS unless you know what you are doing.

[djnolan]

R134a does not cool as efficiently as R12. R134a also has higher pressures. Several changes were made in the design of AC systems when the switchover occurred to compensate for this. Newer compressors and parallel flow condensers to name a couple. However the 944 system is fairly robust already and will handle r134a without too much loss of performance. The vent temps will be a few degrees higher and the compressor will have to work a little harder due the higher pressures. Freeze12 is a blend of r134a and another chemical and lowers the pressures to those of r12, but the added chemical is a flammable hydrocarbon and could possible ignite if there were a leak or breach from an accident. I am sure this is a rare occurrence, though. For freeze12 you must follow the regulations about certification, labeling, and fill port adapters.

[mattdavis11]

Parallel flow/micro tube condensers came long after the switch, and you know why. Seriously, 134 will freeze you out if you know what you are doing. When you are not moving down the road, 134 is not a happy camper unless a large volume of air cools down the condenser. Tube and fin condensers went to the wayside.

What was the change in the compressors? There are lots of swash plate/piston compressors still being installed on vehicles today. Maybe you are referring to vein and scroll types of compressors?

Please don't tell me that 134 is not a drop in when converting from R-12. If you believe you have to change everything to make it work, you're mistaken. For instance, my drier is 28 years old, so is the expansion valve, and the oil is also not compatible, according to myth. It probably blows colder than anyone with an R12 system, and it blew colder than a new car a few years back.

Freeze 12 is a blend and it will not react the same as R-12, that's why you dial the charge back to 90%, 134 can vary depending on climate, mine likes about 82% of what is recommended for R-12. My Land Cruiser likes it at about 85%.

I play with pressures.