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In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkbergman View Post
For KDJones,
[hooah!]
Happy New Year in the first place!
I read with great interest your thread on DL and FL, as
you have the solution I want. Esp in your first logic diagram, with the FLs and DLs options.
....
Except that I'm a 1970 911E - if you read Excellence mag, it;s the car
in the Dec 2010 issue, p.68.

Your descriptions and diags are clear, but not for the old eyes of a mechanical - not electrical engineer. I'll have to google some of the symbols.
And, of course the plugs and pins are 944.
Then, 'whatsa bridge adapter?'

Is it possible to convert the 944 discussion generic?
Then I can execute for the 911. For example, I wonder if the bridge
you describe in detail, partnumber etc, works in other cars with spade connectors? I fear the worst, since there are so many different bridges....

Your solution has the elegance of a clean feel to it, with the various
inputs and outcomes exactly as I am looking for.

Many thanks from a grey and chilly Brussels.
WB
Just saw this post, sorry about that.

I do not know the differences between the 911 and 944 wiring harnesses, but I imagine that they are significant - especially from 1970 to the late 944.

That bridge adapter was developed I believe to keep to a single wiring harness that would work for the various country configurations, without having to do anything other than put in a different "relay".

I wouldn't trust the 944 bridge adapters to work with other cars, at least without doing a detailed scan of their wiring diagram.

Cheers, Keith
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th

Last edited by kdjones2000; 03-03-2012 at 04:29 AM..
Old 02-29-2012, 07:27 PM
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Geeezuz! All that for fog lights? Wow. If they're that important, by all means. But for me.....naaaah.
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3 944's, 2 Boxsters and one Caman S, and now one 951 turbo. Really miss the Cayman.

Some people try to turn back their "odometers." Not me. I want people to know 'why' I look this way. I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
Old 03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
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In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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Post #12 describes the easiest way to do this conversion, where you only have to modify the bridge adapter and remove one wire from the harness block at the foglight switch. Those changes and adding the driving light wiring into the fuse block.

Cheers, Keith
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
Old 03-03-2012, 04:37 AM
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someone already added the euro fog lights to a 944 i just bought - but he only has one bulb - if i want to add the second bulb - anything special or can i just tie into existing wire for single bulb?
Old 09-11-2012, 11:03 AM
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In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinfall View Post
someone already added the euro fog lights to a 944 i just bought - but he only has one bulb - if i want to add the second bulb - anything special or can i just tie into existing wire for single bulb?
You can do it, but there is an issue with current draw on those wires and the circuit. Several people sell driving light wiring kits that run directly to the battery and is activated by some relays.

Don't use too high of wattage bulbs and you may be okay, just remember that they are illegal to use in the US...
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
Old 09-11-2012, 11:12 AM
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Nice wiring and writeup.

For other readers, I did something similar not too long ago for only a few dollars worth of investment and a few trial-and-errors for alignment. Drilled holes in the plastic where the screws pass through anyways, and used some simple plastic spacers to get the right lense angle. Screw/nut and some bracketry holds it in place.

Old 09-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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Keith,
Nice job! I am doing my eurolights too but there are no pics in your posts, there should be right?, do you still have them? would make life a lot easier.

Thanks,
Anders
Old 01-23-2018, 10:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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Yes, there were many pictures in this thread. Image Shack and Photobucket have teamed up to effectively kill them, as with most of my threads on this board.

Let me dig around and see if I can get them reposted, but the original posts in this thread are too old to edit and correct.

Cheers, Keith
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
Old 01-23-2018, 02:19 PM
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I'm also interested - had a thread on what quality lamps fit the 944 fog positions but this looks good too.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:17 PM
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In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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Well let's try this again.....

After toying with adding Euro Foglights to my car and reading up on various forums as to which is the best way to hook them up, I am finally taking the plunge and installing these.

The following is a "how to" of sorts related to the options available, installation, and a lot of details surrounding it. I apologize if this gets too technical for some - lots of wiring diagrams are coming up. Why am I doing this? Well, mostly to start some discussion about this mod to our cars, plus this whole procedure is at best poorly documented on all of the major 944 boards - too many people keeping things "close to the vest" or not taking the time to document what they did.

Euro Foglight Lenses:

The first step in the process is obtaining a set of euro foglight lenses, or to make your own set from a set of USA foglight lenses and a set of cracked lenses. Since making a set is a *LOT* cheaper than spending the $200/ea for the lenses, I chose to make mine.

To do this, either obtain a set of driving light lenses from a set of broken euro foglights (Best), or make their equivalent from some USA lens reflectors and hardware. In my case I bought off of Fleabay a cracked euro fog lens for one side, and used US spec hardware from a fellow Pelicanite for the other side.

There are some differences in the two approaches, which I try to highlight below. The following pictures show the differences in how the lenses are secured using the Euro DL hardware (first picture) and what needs to be done to convert a US version lens. Here is the Euro Foglight with the Driving Light (DL) mounted in place (I am using 1 OEM and 1 homebuilt mounting screw in this picture):



For the US conversion, the reflector lens is actually the same one as used for the foglights, but with a light shield (Euro DL on Left, US fog on Right). The dimensions are the same for each, making a conversion possible:





You first need to remove the shield for the bulb in the foglight reflector. I did this by drilling out the rivet on the backside of the reflector and wrestling the shield out. The rivet was where the lower hole is in the middle stamped piece:



Once the reflector is set up to be a driving light, there are some other modifications that need to be done to mount it into the DL location. The Euro DL hardware uses a "C" type plastic runner to guide the lens through its adjustments. The US foglights instead use a "Blade" type runner. The two posts that are used to hold the lens in place need to be carefully modified to work with the foglight plastic runners. I used a hacksaw to carefully remove the inner material in each post, so that the runners could slide between them:



The other thing that needs to be done is to add some adjustment screws for the DL's. This is not as simple as first thought, as the DL's screws are longer than those used for the foglights. I was able to obtain screws at my local Ace store (~130mm/M4x0.7, with a nylok M4 nut) that matched the OEM hardware closely (Top 2 are OEM foglight adjustment screws, lowest one is OEM DL adjustment screw):



The holes for these adjustment screws in the USA lenses are closed, likely to prevent moisture from getting into the lens. You therefore need to use a drill to open them up enough to allow the screws to go in. I also used a rubber washer at the screwhead to help prevent water from getting into the lens - the same setup as is used for the foglight adjustment screws.

Once you have assembled all of the items the lenses should look like those in the pictures below. I have verified that there is enough room in the lens assemblies to fit all of the above hardware, and the units are now installed in my car.





Next step is to wire the units up....
__________________
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th

Last edited by kdjones2000; 01-25-2018 at 10:37 PM..
Old 01-24-2018, 05:58 PM
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Wiring Things Up

Once the lenses are modified and installed, the next step is to wire them into your car. This is actually the tricky part of things, as there are many, many ways to do this. A look though threads here at Pelican as well as on the "other forum" reveal that the vast majority of people create their own harness, usually using a #53 type 40A relay wired into a secondary foglight switch installed into the empty space near the headlight switch. This is what Jon did on his car:



While this is certainly a way to make the DL's work, I wanted a more "elegant" solution for this, one which would work the way I wanted it to. Going through the various scenarios I came to the conclusion that I wanted the foglights and DL's to work with the following logic:



I didn't want to have to be throwing a driving light switch every time an oncoming car came into view, yet I also wanted to have the ability to use the DL's as replacements for the popup headlights when I chose. The above satisfies those requirements.

After poring over the various wiring diagrams for the '88 model year cars, I was able to pull the following information that was relevant to the foglights:

1) The USA spec cars use relays in both the Foglight and "Complimentary Light" locations, but the "DL" relay is there really only to allow for the "flash to pass" feature to work, when the foglight switch is in the Off position.



2) The ROW cars use a SPST relay in the DL location (G12) in place of the US SPDT relay. In all cases the DL's are hard wired into the 56a circuit so that they will come on with the high beams or using the "flash-to-pass" feature. Different countries have different wiring though the Bridge Adapter (G6) for the foglights, presumably in order to comply with specific regulations.



3) As mentioned in the Panorama article about converting to Euro foglights, the Bridge Adapter is an important element that determines how the foglights and DL's work. There are 10 different versions of this G6 part.



The wiring for the various USA and ROW combinations are summarized in Page 12 of the wiring diagram. From this it can be seen that the JAPAN version of wiring is the closest one to the USA version, but with the additional connections for the DL's:



4) Even for the USA wiring harness, provisions are there for the DL's, with all of the connections present up to the Central Electrics box, coming out at C21 and C31 (Area B-6 on the drawing below):



What this means is that the DL's can be wired directly into the existing OEM wiring harness, using the OEM relays and locations inside of the fuse box. All that needs to be done is to modify some elements of the Bridge Adapter (G6), make some wiring changes around the G12 relay and the Headlight/Foglight switches, and add a good wiring run from the central electrics panel down to the DL locations.

After going through all of the details of analyzing the diagrams above, the following modified wiring schematic should provide the logic shown in the table above. The strategy is to use Circuit 57 to control the foglights and DL's with Parking Lights on, 56b using Lowbeams, and 56a with Highbeams and the Flash-to-Pass feature:



I have verified that the Bridge Adapter wiring works as it should per the schematic, but I am still looking for some parts to finish up the wiring (See my WTB in the Classified section), but I am reasonably confident that this should work as planned.

That's it for now; I will update this as progress is made.
__________________
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th

Last edited by kdjones2000; 01-25-2018 at 10:11 PM..
Old 01-24-2018, 06:15 PM
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I was able to complete the conversion this weekend, thanks to the help of Vic (Pauerman) and an extra wiring harness / central electrics board.

Here is an overall summary of the changes needed:

First you need to acquire an extra foglight switch and connector for it from a parts recycler. I put the extra foglight switch (Now your DL switch) in the empty location just to the left of the current foglight switch.





All necessary wiring changes connecting the bridge adapter to the relays can be done through connections within the wiring harness.

Circuit #56a needs to connect to Pin #5 of the DL connector. First, remove the wire currently connected to Pin #5 of the Foglight connector and insulate it and tie it off (12V from Fuse #9). This is the black wire in the upper portion of the picture below:



Now solder a wire from Pin #5 of the DL connector over to Pin #56a located in the turn signal/high beams connector that attaches to the stalk assembly. 56a is a white wire for my car, and I stripped a small area of the insulation and soldered the wire from Pin #5 to it:



Modification of the wiring to relay G12 was needed to provide fused power to Pin #30. Fuse #9 is for the "Complimentary Driving Lights", and following this through the panel it was found to connect to Pin #8 of G6 (Bridge adapter). This shows up a "SI.9" in the wiring diagram. Connecting Pin 6 to Pin 8 in the Bridges Adapter (G6) will complete this connection, giving a 15A fused, switched circuit to power the driving lights.

Modification of the G6 Bridge Adapter consisted of breaking connections between pins 5-1 and 0-7, then connecting 6 to 8. This actually proved to be a bit more delicate than first planned, as there are multiple pins that have to be routed around within the relay when adding connections:

Here is G6 in it's original form:



Here is the final result after modifications, with the added wire requiring routing around the backing pins for the relay to be reassembled:



Connecting Pin #2 of the DL switch to Pin #86 of the G12 relay is the hardest connection to make, as this requires modification of the G6 Bridge Adapter. This was done with an additional pin/wire added to the relay to connect Pin #7 of G6 to Pin #2 of the DL Switch. A hole was drilled into the cover of G6 and the wire routed from the relay through the central electrics area down into the passenger compartment to connect to the DL switch. Not the perfect solution here, but the only way I could find to make this connection. The original G6 bridge adapter on the left, the completed and modified one on the right:

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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
Old 01-24-2018, 06:29 PM
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With the wiring harness and Bridge Adapter modifications completed, the next step was to add wires to the main wiring harness for the driving lights. Block "C" of the main wiring harness contains the connections in question, C21 and C31. To add these wires, two blade receptacles from the old wiring harness were removed.



The C block of the wiring harness can be easily opened up using a small blade screwdriver:





The locations where the DL wires need to be inserted are circled in red:



The block lower than the one you are modifying also has to be separated, as there are 2 plastic retaining pins that hold the receptacle in place. Once the wires are inserted, close up the connector block by snapping things back together.

Routing the wires out into the engine compartment was fairly straightforward, as there was a blank firewall plug just below the fuse panel:



Punch a hole in the grommet and run the wires, then put the fuse panel back in position. Here you can see the wire added to the G6 bridge adapter Pin #7 that goes into the passenger's compartment to Pin #2 of the DL switch:



The last items to do are to complete wiring the DL switch into the dashboard, and completing the wiring from the fuse panel to the driving lights.

A second connector to mate with the DL switch was wired into the car as follows:

1) Pin #5 was soldered to a wire connected to Pin #56a of the turn signal stalk connector.
2) Pin #1 was soldered to Pin #1 of the existing foglight switch
3) Pin #2 was connected to the wire routed out from Pin #7 of G6 on the fuse panel
4) Circuit #57 needs to be connected to Pin #6 of the DL switch. This can be done by soldering a wire from the DL's connector in the wiring harness to Pin #57 located in the Headlight switch connector. Pull the connector apart and solder the new wire into the existing terminal. This is the white wire coming out of the headlight switch, outside of the wiring harness.



For wiring the driving lights from the fuse panel, 2 wires were run out of the firewall. The driver's side wire followed the wiring harness along the framerail to the light. The passenger's side wire was routed up along the firewall over to the cruise control, then down to the light.

Since there is only a single hole in the front bumper cover for running wires to the foglights/DL's, a 3rd wire was punched through the rubber grommet and used for the DL connection. Bullet style connectors were used. The ground wire was connected to the foglight ground wire:



After connecting everything up, the lights were aimed properly, and the logic tested. Everything is working as shown in the logic table above.

Here is a summary of the changes needed to make this conversion:



I hope that this helps others who are thinking of adding Euro Fog lights; at least it will help me to be able to keep things straight if I want to change things around later on.





Cheers, Keith
__________________
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th

Last edited by kdjones2000; 01-25-2018 at 10:15 PM..
Old 01-24-2018, 06:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
In the Fires of Hell.....
 
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I went through the wiring diagrams again and have come up with a significantly simpler way of enabling the driving lights. The difference would be that the DL's will only go on with the Highbeams and the Flash-to-Pass feature, and cannot be selectively turned off. The advantage is that the only changes that need to be made are with the G6 bridge adapter and some changes at your current foglight switch.

Here is the logic with this Alternate Option:



The DL's wiring would still need to be routed out from the C21/C31 pins, but all other changes are in the G6 relay:

1) Break the #1-#5 and the #0-#7 connections in the G6 relay
2) Solder a wire to connect #5 to #7
3) Solder a wire to connect #6 to #8

The only other change needed is to remove the wire going to Pin #5 of the foglight switch, and tape this one so it doesn't short anywhere (12V hot from Fuse #9). Here is the wiring diagram:



So the only really messy part is that you still have to pull up the fuse panel/central electrics box and remove the "C" block, separate it and add the DL wiring connections.
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th

Last edited by kdjones2000; 01-26-2018 at 10:51 AM..
Old 01-24-2018, 06:40 PM
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Thanks for re-posting this.

I made similar physical mods you did to create the driving lights, but I wanted slightly different functionality. While installing the Rennbay headlight wiring harness, I ran my own wires in parallel for the driving lights with an aftermarket relay mounted next to the Rennbay relays. Emulated the simple switch wiring in post #30, but transferred flash to pass feature from fogs to driving lights.
Old 02-01-2018, 05:25 PM
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very nice write up. i wish i had written something like this when i made the conversion over a decade ago because i've since forgotten how i did it. from what i remember, i ran the new euro driving lights separately with a relay to the new switch, so that it could be turned on independently of all the other lights.
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Old 02-02-2018, 09:45 AM
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Nice to see you around here again, Peter.

Having an individual switch to turn these on/off is bit of a mixed blessing, IMO.

I wanted to be able to turn them on/off quickly as like the high beams, in the event of oncoming cars. Fiddling with some fog light switch for that is not something I was interested in. That is pretty much the entire reason for this thread...
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'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG
3300 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
"Certified National PCA Instructor" Hoooohah!
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
Old 02-16-2018, 02:19 PM
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