used 951 vs used 91 MR2 Turbo

[burburlulu]

I always liked the 951s when I was a kid. I have found several good used 944 Turbo (all for under 10k) which has all serivices done and owners have alll the service history of the cars. I also looked at 91 MR2 Turbo for about 7-8K, The question is Porsche is a Porshce and i heard horrible stories of how expensive parts and services on the 951 while the MR2 Turbo is one of the most reliable turbo car, parts are cheap and with great aftermarket support, so which one should i choose since this is not going to be my "main" car, rather than like a "weekend project" car so I dont wanna dump into $$ to fix this and that

so which one should i choose?

[Lawrence Coppari]

I would get the 951 if for no other reason than looks. MR2's look like something out of a video game. But I have to say that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

If you do the work yourself, and it sounds like you do, the 951 will not cost much. If you have to depend on a dealer, it can be expensive. Can't speak for MR2's about that.

[Z-man]

Hmmm, 951 vs. MR2T: well, I can tell you about the n/a versions of both of these: I own a 944S2, and before that, I had a '91 MR2 n/a. So here's the advise I offer to you:

Both the 951 and MR2T are great cars: the 944 turbo engine is very reliable, but so is the 3SGTE (?) engine found in the MR2T. Believe it or not, handling is about the same on these cars, except that the MR2 is a little more nimble in the turns. High speed stability goes to the 951, however. The 944 has a little more displacement (2.5 vs. 2.0), so stock for stock, there's more low end grunt.

If you're going to get the MR2T, you may want to get a 93 and up car: they tweaked the suspension a little to make it more drivable in real world situatoins. (IE: This lessened the tendency to SNAP OVERSTEER that was evident in 91-92). But you may have trouble finding a 93-95 for under $10k.

Tunability: both cars are very, very tunable: I have seen 300+ hp cars in both cases: behold the power of a turbo! If done right, these horsepower beasts can be very streetable, and durable. So I guess it's a toss-up regarding tunability.

Track driving: I feel the 951 is better suited for the track: it has a 50/50 weight displacement with the transaxle in the back. While the MR2T has about a 50/50 distribution, since it is mid-engined, it isn't as stable through high-speed corners, and thus it is easier to swap ends once you get beyond the limits of traction. The 951 is easier to recover.

Styling: the 951 styling is a bit dated. Personally, I like the MR2's looks, but I LOVE the looks of the 944 better. It's a matter of personal preference. Interior of an MR2 looks more like a spaceship cockpit. On both cars, all the controls are placed very ergonomically.

Practicality: 951 wins hands down: hatchback, rear seats are things not found in an MR2. I like small cars: and for driving here and there, the MR2's ok. But if you need to pack anything more than an overnight bag, the MR2's not for you.

Maintenance costs: close to a toss up here, with the MR2 probably just edging out the 951 in costs. It's just about sheer numbers: with more Toyota dealerships out there, there's more parts, and more opportunities for maintenance. The engine's a little easier to work on too. (Except for the dreaded 'hose-from-hell') And they used the MR2 engine in other cars, like the Celica Turbo. The 951 engine was only used in the 944 series.

Durability: I'd say the MR2's a little better here. There are various things to look out for in a 951: clutch, motor mounts, gaskets..etc. The MR2 has less of these types of "I know I need to replace this soon" items. My old MR2 had 180,000 miles on it with what I believe was the original clutch: something unheard of in a 944. But if I had to choose between a car that's been carefully maintained vs. once that hasn't, well, you know the answer.

A good place to look for more MR2 info is: www.board.mr2faq.com. A board very similar to this one.

So, which car would I drive? Well, I USED to have an MR2, but now I drive a 944. 'Nuf said.

Hope this helps,
-Zoltan.
My Gallery:

[Kierf - 色?]

I have a 951, my business partner has a '91 MR2 Turbo hardtop (try finding one of those).

Anyways, the parts for MR2s are cheap. They are readily available from several companies. Just about anything you want for the 3S-GTE engine, you can get and same goes for the rest of the car.

The '91-'92 have a problem with snap oversteer, it can be corrected with a set of good sway bars.

The MR2 Turbo does not have 50/50 weigh distribution. The engine itself is HEAVY. The block is solid...something. It isn't aluminum that is for damn sure. It is more like 40/60 (f/r)

Brakes on the 951 are bigger and a little less prone to fade than the MR2 Turbo's brakes, though the MR2's brakes are still pretty good.

Stock, out of the box racing, the MR2 Turbo does very well in SCCA A-Stock.

The transmissions can have problems at about 400 horsepower or so (can't remember exactly how much torque).

All this with Toyota reliability.

If I wasn't so hell bent on getting a 951, I'd be driving an MR2 Turbo right now instead.

[Kierf - 色?]

Originally posted by Z-man
The engine's a little easier to work on too. (Except for the dreaded 'hose-from-hell')

Ahahaha!! My business partner called me up one day, he was so pissed off about that hose. It is like Toyota's equivlent to our thermostat snap ring.

[Blackfoot]

i owned a '91 mr2 turbo about 3 years ago, and have owned 2 951's since then. if i wasn't driving a 951, i'd have an mr2t. in fact, i miss the deuce.

both are excellent cars. the mr2 definitely has the superior engine, both in reliability and power potential. the 951 does so many things well. on the road, a german car has a distinctly different feel than a japanese car. styling is subjective, i like both. if i recall correctly, the weight dist for the deuce is like 43/57, so it can be a little tricky in certain situations like kierf mentioned.

the nice thing about comparing these cars is that they both cost about the same, unlike the absurd comparisons to a tt supra, which is costs about 3 times as much as a 951.

951 or mr2t, you won't go wrong i think.

[sc944]

all i have to say is that i hope none of you siding with the mr2 consider your self purists...

hands down my vote goes to the 951. i own a n/a 944 and have driven an n/a mr2. yea it handles well, but that can be expected from a tiny car that probably has the turning radius of a go cart.

[ribs]

I have a '90 celica all-trac, which has the same engine as the MR2 turbo (the 3S-GTE)...luckily the hose from hell doesn't exist on my celica. I have a friend who had an MR2-T for a while, and I have had the opportunity to drive it hard it several times. Stock out of the box, the MR2 is a little faster off the line, but over 100 the 951 will start to edge the MR2 out by a little bit. The 200 horse out of the 3S-GTE is anemic for my celica because the f'ing thing weighs 3300 pounds, but is definitely ample in the MR2. The 3S-GTE motor definitely has better low end/off boost drivability...this comes from having a slightly higher compression ratio, 4 valves/cyl and DOHC, not to mention TVIS (toyota variable intake system) which has variable length intake runners that switch from long skinny runners to fatter shorter runners at higher RPM's (this is what I believe makes the biggest difference in low end torque for this motor). The 951 motor is a lot torquier on boost, but falls completely short at low revvs. The 951 has more turbo lag than the little CT-26 turbo that is stuck on the 3S-GTE...the 3S-GTE motor is set up with a lot shorter path for the whole forced induction system, so I am sure this has something to do with the lack of lag as well. The only difference I know between the 3S-GTE in the celica and in the MR2 is that the MR2 came stock with a bypass valve while the celica did not, so the MR2 will be better between shifts and the turbo will probably last longer (mine was rebuilt at 104K miles on the celica).

I believe the 951 motor is cheaper to moddify though. The fact that it has swappable chips and the stock software is set up very conservatively makes just chipping the 951 a large difference (40-50 HP with a $200-400 mod, depending on where you get your chips), while the 3S-GTE's ECU can be reprogrammed (requires pulling the ECU out of the car and shipping it off, waiting for it to get back, so you have some downtime) the gains are notably less as the car is a lot more limited by the stock intake and exhaust systems than the 951 is, not to mention is is 2 or 3 times the cost of chips (for example, http://www.toysport.com/New%20Products/Toysport%20PET%20ECU.htm ). The top mounted intercooler on the 3S-GTE is often jokingly referred to as an "intercooker"...the small stock poorly positioned intercooler is a limiting factor for upgrading the toyota, while the 951 intercooler is much less of a hinderance (but eventually becomes one once you start pushing 350+ HP to the wheels). The aftermarket for the 3S-GTE isn't that great because it was a low production motor only stuffed in 2 US models (they still use that motor in the altezza over in japan, and probably a few other cars)...I am willing to bet that there are more 951 specific mods available than there are MR2.

That said, the 3S-GTE motor is no slouch...it is more or less exactly 2/3's of a 3rd gen (japanese camaro) supra motor (7M-GTE I think)...the newer 3S-GTE found in the altezza and the last generation all-trac (wasn't available in the US, but is a more or less bolt in motor swap if you can find one) is exactly 2/3's of the infamous 1JZ-GTE supra twin turbo motor, and in the japanese GT racing series, the Toyota factory supra GT car is powered by a highly moddified 3S-GTE (4 banger) making over 700 HP. Toyota parts from a dealership, which you are often forced to go to if you need something that day, are as ridiculously priced as porsche parts are.

Hmmm...what else...I really don't like the sound of the 3S-GTE motor...when ever I get on it in my all-trac, I can never help but think that the car sounds like a gigantic angry vacuum cleaner...I am sure with a nice cone filter and tasteful muffler the car would sound better, but stock it sounds like ass. The porsche is definitely more intoxicating a sound. Don't flame me, but I think one of the prettiest sounding 4 bangers around is a DOHC V-TEC on the hot cam with tastefully loud exhaust and an open intake.

Oh, and whoever said "toyota reliability"...the motor will run forever, but the cars are pieces of $hit as far as build quality goes...have you ever seen a notchback 5th generation celica who's trunk isn't mangled and distorted? The cooling system on the toyota is marginal at best and will have troubles (I had to replace the entire system on my all-trac because it is a piece)...good luck finding a 10 year-old toyota with a working air-coniditoning. The porsche is a much better put together car, IMHO...though it has several quarks, too...like the clutch job from hell, retarded torsion bars, windage problems, dash-boards that have more crack(s) than harlem, the infamous cassette tray hinge, interference design (the 3S-GTE won't bend valves if your timing belt snaps like a 951 will), crappy timing belt job requiring a $600 specialty tool, bad waterpumps, oil leaks (my celica leaks oil, too), and any one of a hundred things that you see listed here. Geez...past my bed time...see ya.