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NA to Turbo conversion

Sup everyone. New here but been into 944's for about 20 years now. about 10 years ago I did a turbo conversion on a 86 8v NA engine and put down about 290hp when i was done. I sold that car back in 02.

I just picked up another 87 944S for 600.00 (timing belt stripped 2 teeth off. I went through the hassel of checking the valves for nothing it seems the old owner was smart enough not to continue driving the car. now that its all back together i thinkim ready to pull it apart again.

Now i know everyone and then some are going to say just buy a turbo model and call it a day. The problem is even the turbo model just doesnt have the power im looking for.

Cost means nothing as i own my own performance fab. shop and i can build everything in house.

So here are the list of products i will be building in house for this build

6061 aluminum Plenum with forward facing TB
70mm Billet throttle body
Water to Air intercooler system and piping
321SS Turbo header with CT5558 triple ceramc ball bearing t3 turbo
Aluminum compression reduction head riser plate
billet fuel rails, ss fuel line with Mallory FPR with 255lph pump

Goal is 450HP to the ground 8:5:1 compression

Granted I am going to replace the lower internals with H beam rods and forged pistons using arp2000 studs. As well as beefing up the trans and rear end.

Budget is 5000.00 which will put the total at 5600.00 Now considering all the Turbo 944s in my area run about 7500 I think this is the way to go

What i would like to know is if anyone knows of a place that sells the Kevlar timing and balancer belts
Old 07-11-2011, 11:14 AM
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I highly doubt you'll be getting 450 at the wheels that cheaply. . .not for long anyway.

LS3?
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gensing View Post
>>>>>>>>
What i would like to know is if anyone knows of a place that sells the Kevlar timing and balancer belts


944 Timing belts and related items - Rennbay - Porsche 944 ball joints, power steering, brakes, odometer gears & accessories

GL & welcome
John
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:16 PM
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You will never get that many ponies with a water to air intercooler - to much heat - doubt you would even go to 290 - air to air intercooler maybe.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta View Post
I highly doubt you'll be getting 450 at the wheels that cheaply. . .not for long anyway.

LS3?
LOL why is that 90% of my parts are built in house
Old 07-11-2011, 02:02 PM
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You will never get that many ponies with a water to air intercooler - to much heat - doubt you would even go to 290 - air to air intercooler maybe.
LOL again why is that. W2A has proven to be more efficiant on all of my setups. I currently am putting down 940 on a 3.6 mitsu with a water to air system.

Air to air just means more lag more psi drop more piping and it is still being cooled by ambiant temps.not helpfull in 100 degree weather
W2A +less piping, less then 1/2 of psi drop stillbeing cooled by outside temps but it is constantly circulating as well as since it is water it is cooling down further then just air. Also being able to run sub ambiant temps with an ice box for track use
Old 07-11-2011, 02:10 PM
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Oh, LOL, didn't realize you were fabbing your own motor.

:eyeroll:
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gensing View Post
LOL why is that 90% of my parts are built in house
Sweet, hey need a 3.0l 944S2 engine. I have one that ran when I pulled it from the car, probably more potential in that than most 944 engines.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta View Post
I highly doubt you'll be getting 450 at the wheels that cheaply. . .not for long anyway.

LS3?
my cost on rods and pistons are 900
Turbo 1200
cams 460
belts 355
leaves me over 2000 to build my other parts which is pleanty.

Keep in mind i have a full fab shop where we speacialize in turboed cars

If i can get 512whp out of my e46 im sure i can put down 450 on a 944s with the same displacement.

you just have to think outside the box.
Old 07-11-2011, 02:23 PM
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Sweet, hey need a 3.0l 944S2 engine. I have one that ran when I pulled it from the car, probably more potential in that than most 944 engines.
sick! pm me a price it would save me the time on the over bore i was going to do as well as give me a larger displacement
Old 07-11-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gensing View Post
LOL again why is that. W2A has proven to be more efficiant on all of my setups. I currently am putting down 940 on a 3.6 mitsu with a water to air system.

Air to air just means more lag more psi drop more piping and it is still being cooled by ambiant temps.not helpfull in 100 degree weather
W2A +less piping, less then 1/2 of psi drop stillbeing cooled by outside temps but it is constantly circulating as well as since it is water it is cooling down further then just air. Also being able to run sub ambiant temps with an ice box for track use
this isn't entirely true. even water to air only cools to slightly above ambient, you can't magically lose heat "since water is cooling down further than air" <- doesn't work like that with the quoted bit.
Old 07-11-2011, 02:40 PM
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this isn't entirely true. even water to air only cools to slightly above ambient, you can't magically lose heat "since water is cooling down further than air" <- doesn't work like that with the quoted bit.
Although the density of water will keep the air-water radiator cooler than air-air as long as the water is cooled extremely well.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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Oh, LOL, didn't realize you were fabbing your own motor.

:eyeroll:
and what exactly do you mean by this?
Old 07-11-2011, 03:39 PM
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this isn't entirely true. even water to air only cools to slightly above ambient, you can't magically lose heat "since water is cooling down further than air" <- doesn't work like that with the quoted bit.
hens the ice tank. on the streets intraffic it has proven to be a better solution as the water is constantly pumping it and the draw through fans are constantly helping the cooling where a A2A is just sitting there heat soaking
Old 07-11-2011, 03:42 PM
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gensing___ you got a PM (private message)
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:13 PM
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Ok lets say that it's 100 f. outside - motor water temp is 185 (Normal) - Turbocharger ambient air is 100 F. , after compression the turbo air going to be 180 F. +. So the intercooler water/air starts at 185 as engine water temp - so there is not much cooling there at all. Air/air Inter-cooler ambient air is 100 F. - compressed air is 180 F. and cooled by Porsche turbo OEM inter-cooler down to 125 F.

If you are sitting there in traffic you do not need an intercooler because there is no boost (only compressed air is heated).

Do the math, unless you do have a separate ICE-bucket inter-cooler...and they are only good for 1/2 hour or so any way.

Plus - how do you figure there is less piping on a water/air inter-cooler than an air/air inter-cooler - You still have to duct the intake air to and through the intercooler no mater what kind.

Hey I do not mind dreaming and wasting time either...
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Last edited by Cocacolakidd; 07-11-2011 at 05:55 PM..
Old 07-11-2011, 05:48 PM
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What about brakes and suspension?
I don't see it being done on $5k even fabbing stuff yourself.. but even if it's $20k, you can't put a price on the fun of the project.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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and what exactly do you mean by this?
I mean you won't be getting 500+ reliable crank HP out of a 2.5 on the budget you have set, even if your last name is Penske.

But please, prove me wrong. Video of your first track day in the car would be especially enjoyable.
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd View Post
Ok lets say that it's 100 f. outside - motor water temp is 185 (Normal) - Turbocharger ambient air is 100 F. , after compression the turbo air going to be 180 F. +. So the intercooler water/air starts at 185 as engine water temp - so there is not much cooling there at all. Air/air Inter-cooler ambient air is 100 F. - compressed air is 180 F. and cooled by Porsche turbo OEM inter-cooler down to 125 F
ok you are telling me to do the math yet yours is all over the place. so lets do this again.
Ambiant air is at 100f. motor water temp is 185(what does this have to do with it?) do you think the w2a system runs off of the engines radiator? if it is 100f outside and you have water running through a heat exchanger it will drop to about 90 give or take. so if the compressed air is coming out at about 100 it will drop to about 90f before entering the throttle body. which is cooler then the 125F the factory IC provides


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd View Post
If you are sitting there in traffic you do not need an intercooler because there is no boost (only compressed air is heated).
Think about it. wouldnt you rather have an IC system that is being cooled at all ties rather then when you just get to speed?

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Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd View Post
Plus - how do you figure there is less piping on a water/air inter-cooler than an air/air inter-cooler - You still have to duct the intake air to and through the intercooler no mater what kind.
W2A system sits in place of the factory air box. one end of the IC goes directly into the throttle body (with a revered TB plenum) the other end takes about a foot of piping.

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Hey I do not mind dreaming and wasting time either...
maybe you shouldnt waste your time talking on something you do not know much about. Ive been building cars for 22 years now and have been speacilizing in turboes cars for the past 15 years. I build FMIC, SMIC, w2A, plenums and headers for a living and been doing so for the last 13 years.

This is one of the reasons why platforms tend not to move forward with aftermarket R&D. Ive seen this time and time again. Ive been told that a v6 cant handle 800hp and be streetable by the corvette guys and yet i have one ive as a DD for the last two years.

Iwas told 10 years ago it was not a good idea to turbo an na porshe yet i did it for under 3500 and the car was running fine for about 5 years untill my buddy who bought the car snapped the belt.

I am willing to take advice just as well as the next guy but make sure you are gving good advise. dont post just to post or just to seem like you know what you are talking about.
Old 07-12-2011, 07:32 AM
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What about brakes and suspension?
I don't see it being done on $5k even fabbing stuff yourself.. but even if it's $20k, you can't put a price on the fun of the project.
no suspension brakes and trans/ dif are seperate. the budget is for the engine only. but you are right its about the project for me. because it would be easier to sell the car take the 5000 and buy something else. but then what excuse would i have to tell my wife when i dont wat to deal with her lol
Old 07-12-2011, 07:35 AM
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