guess i shoulda changed my cam chain pad
 

well, my pad let go, the chain broke, the timing belt i guess had its teeth sheered off, since it's not moving. Before i realized what happened, i tried several times to start the car so i'm sure there is some valve damage. I took off the valve cover and found the mess, and i'm sure at least two valves are damaged judging from the cams position. it's a 91 S2 cab, a little rough but not bad, unknown milage although the po said the odometer broke very recently before i bought it with 125,000 miles.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

That sucks sorry to hear. My Chevy truck 4x4 transmission went, its a nvg 4500, solid transmission, I opened it up to find no fluid, and the pisser is there was no leak. The a-hole who i paid 850 to change the clutch drained it and did not re fill it. If not one car then the other. I think secretly they know and get jealous of each other and break down for some tlc.

posted in your other thread......

pull the cams and do a leakdown test (you'll need a leakdown guage set and compressed air)
15% leakage will probably be ok at the most, but you need to see what the numbers are to determine if the valves are bent/not sealing.......
with the cams out all the valves will be closed so you wont have to spin the engine, but be aware the crank may want to turn depending where the pistons are when you connect the air .....won't hurt anything though once the cams are out and providing the valves aren't "that" bent....

normal wear on the engine will probably be 5-10% leakage......

Did the tensioner break off of the head? If so, you will either need a new head or the have the head welded (don't even know if that's possible).

If the belt is not turning the cams, then you might be lucky and only the 2 currently open valves will be bent. You still need to take the head off and replace any bent valves, and you might as well put a new chain and pads on that tensioner.

It's common for the tensioner to snap off of the head, and I've heard the mitigating fix is to weld a boss on the #3 spark plug hole and drill/tap a hole in it so the tensioner can be bolted down on both sides (like a 968).

oh yea.....then there's that........
good point fr.......if there's big damage at the tensioner then the head will have to come off anyway......

Thanks guys. the cam chain is broken and jammed up under the tensioner, which didn't break off but is is pushed a little to the side. good idea to take the cams out, i'm pretty sure i need some head work tho, i just don't know much about it

pictures?

so on this topic, ive only seen one description on how to change out the pads and chain, requiring removal of cams. is there a method to replace pads and chain without removing the cams?

If you need a 16v cylinder head and cams i am pretty sure a buddy of mine has all of these parts that he no longer needs. If you decide to put the motor back together, let me know and i will get in touch with him.

I am not sure...

Rennlist on pad & chain:
DIY - Camshaft chain, tensioner pads - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Pelican on timing:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/533812-detailed-write-up-camshaft-timing-great-info-968-a.html

There should be a new DIY shortly by V2rocket aka944.

ernie must be on vacation ;)

GL
John

Jon, I am definitely interested, i would like to get it back together, i already have some money and sweat invested, and it's a nice ride with with the top down. Please let me know what you can about it, cost, condition etc. thanks a lot.

and thanks for the links John, I'll check 'em out, i really don't know what im in for, but i think i can probably do nit, i have changed a head on a '95 saturn! same thing right! haha

Ok, Google ___DIY chain tensioner pad replacement 944S2 on Rennlist__,one of the best DIY around for S2.Have Fun:cool:

callmethewander: I recently replaced my tensioner, today I found out one of the bolts backed out. it got between the chain and the cam, snapping the chain :(

I was fortunate to be at idle and not have it dislodge the tensioner. I am thinking I need two new valves as well. Hopefully the head itself is ok. Maybe I will do the leak down test first as well. The cam only made it an eighth turn after breaking. The bolt was still wedged in the sprocket.

keep us posted on your progress, I will let you know how mine goes.

I found that webcam can rebuilt your cams and cam teeth for about a grand, good to know since some cam teeth get worn.

Im still wondering why the cams have to come out, nothing ive read says why. Seems like if you broke a link, the chain should be able to slide out and tensioner removed repaired. Does the chain not have clearance under the cams to slide out?

Mukilteo911: the chain comes right off when you break the chain. The cams have to come out to install the new chain, I believe. I don't think these links come apart and go back together easily for installation without removing the cams. I think in callmethewander and my cases, we need to remove the cams to test to make sure no valves are bent. BTW, I just bought a leak down gauge from harbor freight, the gauge is at 95% out of the box, instead of 100%... you get what you pay for. I will take it back tomorrow.

The tensioner comes out without needing to remove anything, just take off the j-tube and compress it by hand. slide a paper clip through the back holes to keep it compressed and pull it right out.

PSchars951, so if the chain can come out and the tensioner too, then the only reason to remove the cams would be they were damaged. Chain tools can push link pins in and out and keep the chain like new without damage, so you should be able to unlink a chain, slide it in and push back in a pin to reconnect the chain links.

anyone see a problem with this method?

The reason im courious is someone did all the belts etc recently before I bought my car, and it seems rediculas to waste 6 hours when it should take like 2 just replacing the chain and ramps.

This one?
DIY Chain Tensioner Pad Replacement 944S2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Thank you ernie.
John

Rigth on John thats the one.Doing fine here had (Eric 951 -RL)spending a week vacation down here,after stuffing some lobster down is throat I took him for a spirit drive in the 968, lol didn't take long for that lobster to reach the lower parts even for a hard core 951 lover such has Eric.He even dare put both paws on my pristine dash :D going through some haipin curves.

Trust me, there is no way to change the chain without taking out the cams. If you ever look at the 16v head yourself, it would be clear. And there's no way to change the pads without taking the tensioner out from between the cams.