S2 brakes on early offset car?

[9FF]

For the rear brake up-grade use Turbo/S2 Brembo Calipers and Turbo/S2 Rotors - Direct fit. Some have different mounts for rear shocks - use what you have there also.

...and don't forget to get the 4 caliper spacers (2 per caliper) and longer caliper bolts to mount those brembos.

[murrayg]

Thanks guy's! This looks "do-able". thanks for the speedo info Andrew, I was kinda ignoring that problem, GPS would have worked, but having the speedo work completes the package.

[v2rocket_aka944]

i am fairly certain that the s2 brakes are way lighter than NA, alum vs iron...just a thought

if youve got the parts to do it, do it. youll be lighter than an S2 still because you have a smaller gastank and the more spartan interior etc.

[murrayg]

V2, I wouldn't have thought that, but if its true, all the better. I assumed the S2 brakes would be heavier. Bigger normally means heaver, but I missed the aluminum vs steel bit.
I'm kinda excited about this project. I'm thinking manual sunroof, AC delete (all of it, remember I'm in Nova Scotia!!), light weight seats, no rear wiper or headlight motor, no back seat. Not a crazy diet, but get rid of the stuff that really doesn't add anything to the car, or doesn't work. Anyone have any idea what it could weight compared to a full up S2?

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by smokin_944

If the stock brakes were in fact that good you would find them on the turbos and S2s.

P'shaw. They're plenty good enough for race cars on slicks. . .you just have to use the right pads, right fluid, and maybe put a little air on them.

[v2rocket_aka944]

Originally Posted by murrayg

V2, I wouldn't have thought that, but if its true, all the better. I assumed the S2 brakes would be heavier. Bigger normally means heaver, but I missed the aluminum vs steel bit.
I'm kinda excited about this project. I'm thinking manual sunroof, AC delete (all of it, remember I'm in Nova Scotia!!), light weight seats, no rear wiper or headlight motor, no back seat. Not a crazy diet, but get rid of the stuff that really doesn't add anything to the car, or doesn't work. Anyone have any idea what it could weight compared to a full up S2?

having held a 951/S2 caliper back to back with an NA caliper i would say that the 951/S2 caliper is lighter, even though bigger. i may be able to get a weight definitively. but the NA brakes are heavy regardless

[9FF]

The S2 brake v. NA brake weight saving is negligible. We are talking about unsprung weight saving here and although the S2 brakes may be lighter, the S2 hubs, spindles, discs and a-arms are heavier than the early offset na. Also the stock S2 sway bar, springs and wheels are heavier than the stock NA items.

[v2rocket_aka944]

Originally Posted by 9FF

The S2 brake v. NA brake weight saving is negligible. We are talking about unsprung weight saving here and although the S2 brakes may be lighter, the S2 hubs, spindles, discs and a-arms are heavier than the early offset na. Also the stock S2 sway bar, springs and wheels are heavier than the stock NA items.

very true, hadn't considered that.

[smokin_944]

Rasta, if you haven't experienced brake fade maybe you're just not drivin fast enough,lol...

[murrayg]

I'm waking this thread up since I've bought the S2 donor car and this project is now a reality. Longer term (over the winter) since I don't want to stop driving the car this summer. The car is an early 85, so I'll loose my speedo drive

FENNACF, Can you elaborate on the year / model of 911 speedometer I need?

"You can use a late model 944 transmission and early 911 electronic speedometer in the older 944 instrumentation clusters. "

This sounds like a great solution to the speedo problem. One additional question to 3.0 l engines in early cars, where do you locate the new DME, original location under the drivers side dash, or passengers footwell?

Thanks all, looking forward to this!

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by 9FF

The S2 brake v. NA brake weight saving is negligible

Not so. Steel calipers weigh a ton, the Brembos weigh nothing. One ton > nothing.



Also, very easy to drill the spindle and machine the hub cap for speedo cable.

[Catamax944]

Look at Ideola's club sport build thread , he installed a speedhut gps speedo that looks factory.

[Rasta Monsta]

Forgot about that, the unit he put in is super cool.

[9FF]

Originally Posted by 9FF

The S2 brake v. NA brake weight saving is negligible...

Your "ton" is less than half a pound without pads, add the bigger Brembo pads and we are about even.

[bordin34]

I have 88 turbo spindles and 86 turbo calipers on my 86 N/A. The pedal feel is much better than stock and it is easier to modulate. However I also installed stainless lines at the same time.
I havent added camber plates yet so the maximum camber I can get is about 0 degrees.
Do it you wont regret it, plus they look really cool.

[FrenchToast]

As for the NA brakes - yes, they work great if you're running the same amount of power to a car they were originally supplied on. And yes, as mentioned, pads and fluid go a long way.

Originally Posted by murrayg

I also want to keep my early offset wheels. To put all the suspension, control arms, brakes and wheels would result in "S2" comparable weight, which is not what I want.

The weight increase of the later cars is not due to the wider suspension. While it does contribute a small amount (I'd estimate ten pounds), the poundage is really gained by electronics.

Such as (some arrived earlier than others): power steering, ABS, Airbags, heated seats, central locking, power roof, electric seats, cruise control, etc. etc. Things like the seats and computer modules for the ABS and airbag systems is really what the weight is from.

BTW - your S2 looks okay. Why not make things easier and turn that into a track car? There could of course, be things we can't see in that picture but if that car's fine I'd just use the S2.

I also don't understand why you'd want to keep your early offset wheels. Those are replicas of OEM late offset wheels (likely the ones on the S2 are OEM, but not guartenteed). Those replicas have been known to fail under heavy load, and have hence been banned from PCA Club Racing.

Just my thoughts.

Take care!

[9FF]

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

...The weight increase of the later cars is not due to the wider suspension...

Just to clarify the later cars do not have "wider" suspension, track is the same as early cars. The only thing that changed is the offset and you are correct, it does add a bit more weight but the other stuff you mentioned that the factory put into later cars adds a fair bit more.

I woulnd't worry about weight at this time. If you are going to fit a 3.0L into your 85na chassis you will be adding a fair bit more weight anyway. A few more pounds in your suspension won't be noticed.

[murrayg]

Thanks for all the real facts...and meaningful suggestions. Somewhat rare on the internet these days!
French Toast / 9FF - Thanks for the info. The S2 is "really rough"! The early 85 is perfect...and it's the one I want to keep. Also, this is a street car that see's some track time. I originally wanted to keep the early offset wheels because that's what I had, but now that the S2 has the same wheel (different offset of course) I'll likely change to late offset and use everything from the S2. That should be the easiest. Any other suggestions??

Thanks all!!!

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by 9FF

Just to clarify the later cars do not have "wider" suspension, track is the same as early cars. The only thing that changed is the offset and you are correct, it does add a bit more weight but the other stuff you mentioned that the factory put into later cars adds a fair bit more.

Yes, you're correct, my mistake. The offset was changed to allow for ABS sensors. However not all '87+ cars have ABS, it was optional at first.

Originally Posted by murrayg

Thanks for all the real facts...and meaningful suggestions. Somewhat rare on the internet these days!
French Toast / 9FF - Thanks for the info. The S2 is "really rough"! The early 85 is perfect...and it's the one I want to keep. Also, this is a street car that see's some track time. I originally wanted to keep the early offset wheels because that's what I had, but now that the S2 has the same wheel (different offset of course) I'll likely change to late offset and use everything from the S2. That should be the easiest. Any other suggestions??

Thanks all!!!

My suggestion is the same - swap in the entire suspension. However, if you plan to track the car consistently, I'd look into getting a set of aftermarket A-arms. Both the early steel arms and later aluminum arms have significant weaknesses.

And don't forget to have fun!

Take care!