Ok, I carrying out on some routine maintence here, first time for me,...
 

Ok, Im going to replace the cam tensioner on the car, the engine oil, and the spark plugs. Now, for spark plugs I got the bosch 4 tip plugs. The engine oil, I got Mobil1 15w-50.

First, I just removed the park plugs and I noticed that they were all considerably clean. Except that the plugs for cyclinders 3 and four had some oil of them. Now, the oil was on the threads fartherest from the firing tip. Now, the tip of the plug was just black, there was nothing caked on it or damage, no white deposits,... basically according to the haynes manual, they are normal. Now, how would there be oil on just the thread portion of the plug? There wasnt alot of oil either, just alittle. Plugs 1 and 2 had nothing on them. Whats up?

Erm, that's perfectly fine. My plugs are a bit withe, i run a bit lean as it seems... But the oil is probably some lubrication put on to get them out easy and to prevent them stripping the head... By the way, it should be a bit there on 1 and 2. But a bit of oil on the thread is no problem. All seems perfectly fine.

Ok, good,... I didn't think anything of it really,... I mean the tip of the plug is more exposed then the threads so I makes sence. Well, I replaced the cam tensioner and all the plugs,... everything went smooth. The car runs very well,... tomorrow I am going to replace the engine oil,... It is raining here so I dont want to try and attempt to get the car up on the ramps while it wet.

Re: Ok, I carrying out on some routine maintence here, first time for me,...
 

Can you give me the part # for the Bosch +4s that you used? I recently inquired about them for my 1990 S2, and I was told that there wasn't a part # i.e. they don't make them for that car.

BTW, what is the group's consensus on the +4s in the 16 valve engines?

Thanks.

Jim

I can't comment on the effects of 4 tips on a 16 valve engine.

But.................I think they are a waste of money.

Too expensive.

And if you notice a dramatic improvement in the way your car idles or responds, I would look at the rest of your system (coil, rotor, distributor cap)..................................

All things being equal .........a 4 tip plug is not worth the money....but they do look cool :)

Part number? I have the box here and there is like two numbers. the first number says order number and it is 4477 and the second number 0242235627-05P. Hope that helps. Well other than ae1969's comment, i havnt got any others. I dont want to really judge the plugs right now until I get the new oil in the car. From What I have seen so far,... the car seems a tid bit more steady on idle but it could be just as well be a mental thing where I think It sounds better but isnt. To small of a difference to pick up. It starts up nice though. I'm sure it is going to start up real nice when I get the new oil in too. Also, it appeared that throttle responce was a tid bit better too. Anyway, when I get the new juice in her, we'll see.

4477 is the part #,I sell these plugs everyday.

Hey Overkill dont forget your tranny out back,while your doing maint.

I already replaced the tranny fluid a couple of weeks ago. But, Im going to replace it again soon. I want to put mobil1 in the tranny too. I have valvoline synthetic in there now. I want to change it again because everyone recommends mobil1 or swepco, also the old tranny fluid looked really scary so by flushing the the tranny out again I can be sure that all the old stuff is completly out. I just need time!

HOLY CRAP!!! I can't believe! I changed my oil and oil filter and my car,... sounds like a porsche! Geeez, the car is idling ALOT better! Its humming! Also, the plastic barrier thing just after the windshield under the hood use to shake and hit the under portion of the hood and makes this annoying tapping noise. Iwas going to take care of the one day, but its not doing it anymore! The engine is running that much better that its not vibrating as much. Its so smooth! With the new oil/ oil filter and the new 4 tip plugs, the car is so much more stable and VERY peppy! Very good throttle responce! Geeez, I am so impressed!

Overkill - did you do the whole Tensioner (chain, Tensioner, Rails, etc) or just certain parts???

I'm getting new plugs and wires next week - hope mine gets peppy from it!!! Those wires are pretty expensive though!!!

944SBoyeee

I didnt replace the chain, I replaced the whole tensioner thingy with the plastic rail thingy. I didnt get new wires because I really dont think that they are all that bad right now. Right now, if it is not broken not going to fix it. Im not looking for more performance right now. I just want to go back to school. I want the car in good running shape before I go.

Ok, i noticed somthing,... on the cam cover there are two black circlular cap looking things that are kinda like spitting out a tid bit of oil,... why? Is that bad? I noticed that the one closet to the windshield was doing that before the tensioner change. Why is it doing that?

Ummm, ok now I have a leak! I'm not taking it as a HUGE problem. It is the cam cover. It is leaking down on the exhaust and creating some smoke. I cranked the cam cover bolts to like 18lbs. I think I'll crank them a bit more. You think? I clean the rubber gasket off so there isnt anything lodged between the cover and the gasket. Also about the two circular black cap things on the cam cover,... there is a samll amount coming up through it. Why is it doing that? When the engine is running, is there pressure under the cover?

Overkill:
You did put in a new valve cover gasket when you put everything back together, right?

If not, that's probably why you're leaking up top!

-Z.

I didnt:( So I guess I'm going to have to,... also I cant get the bolts any tighter than 15lbs, so what does that tell me? That the threads are stripping? I didnt turn the bolts anymore. What about the black cap things on top of the cover? There is oil coming up and out of that too. Just a little though. Also,... amuse me, how much does a good used head or even a new one cost if they are indeed stripping?

Are you sitting??? I've heard horror stories of $5,000 heads for the S... I'm sure that's new from Porsche. I haven't heard any used head stories.... good luck man.

overkill:
When you took off the cam cover, did it come right off did you have to dis-assemble the front timing pulley mechanism? I don't know if the S is different from the NA in this respect. If not, I too spit a little oil from the gasket you're referencing. I'd like to change it, but didn't think I could without taking apart the belt assembly up front.

Just give you some blind faith, engineers usually make the bolts of softer metal than the threaded material (though in this case the threads are in aluminum - #@%^)...

Let me know about the timing pulley.

Oh no, i just took the cover off. All I have to do is remove the bolts then kinda work it out from under the fuel hoses.

Hmm, you know what though!?!?! Its like almost everyone of those bolts on that cover is doing that though. Not just 1 or 2 of them but like all of them. How would every single one of those bolts be stripping the holes? I need my new gasket! Argh!

overkill-

A couple of things. The oil on the plugs could be leaking from the head into the top of the plug area. When you removed the cam cover, you probably noticed the seals around the spark plug opening, these can weep over time.

The spec on the bolts for the cam cover is only 7-8 ft/lbs, you don't want to strip out the treads in your head. Did you torque them in the proper sequence during re-install?? I ask because when I replaced my chain tensioner, I reused the gasket and had no leaking. The proper order is to start in the middle then diagonally across to the other side then straight up and back across. Working your way outwards in an X pattern.

BTW another tip, when you go to install your new gasket, use a little RTV (and I mean just a thin film) on the sections of the gasket that change elevations. This will help it seal those edges better. You can also use this thin film on those spark plug seals.

As for spark plugs, I ran the Bosch +4s. They were OK. I recently replaced them with the regular Bosch Copper plugs, don't notice any change in performance plus these were cheap!

Good luck with your repairs.

Cheers,
Riff

'90 S2

What about running redline synthetic oil? anyone have experience with it?

Not to beat a dead horse - but is it true for NAs that the cover will come right off? If so - I guess I'll be working on the gasket.
I've read that it's important to use a pliable sharp edge to remove the old gasket - any hints?

OK, check it out! This is what I found! I took the cam cover off again, and I found a tear in the corner of the gasket and it located right were it was leaking! Thats good news! Also, even better news is that my HEAD IS NOT STRIPPING!!! I clean out the holes in the head with a "Q" tip. Then I took the bolts that I thought were definatly stripping and screwed them into the holes. I noticed that there wasnt any excessize play to the bols while screwed half way in. I also screwed them in all the way and nice and firm. I noticed that the threads "looked" like they were full and hardly stripped at all! I think because this is my first kind of engine work, i didnt take into consideration that there is a rubber gasket between the cover and the head. Thats why I thought it was stripping. I didnt turn the bolts alot when I cranking the cover down the first time. I just said that I couldnt get it over 15lbs. Well, what I learing from this is,... check everything! Well, I ordered my new gasket and valve stem seals? This(Valve Stem Seals, 944S, 944S2, 968, 4-valve engines only, 928 4 Valve),... these are the rubber rings that keep oil out of the spark plug area? Thats why I have oil in by the spark plugs. Well I will keep you updated when the stuff gets here. You know yesterday when I was sleeping I had a nightmare about this ****! I had a nightmare about my head being stripped! What is that! If this car doesnt physically kill me on the road, its going to kill me in my dreams! I'm doomed!

Oh I forgot to tell you guyz that I found some epoxi on the gasket too! I found a nice bead of it where the tear in the gasket was. I guess they tried to fix it without having to purchase a new one? If im not mistaken but I think I paid like 13 beans for a new one? Hey, is this why its a good idea to do all the work ourselves? So we know that our cars arent held together with duct tape and epoxi? Just wondering!

On our porsche engines its normally not necessary to add any gasket sealant if you replace it every time you open the cover and retorque it to specs since the gasket is so cheap.....(the one for the 944na is like $5).

?Why couldn't the NA engine been designed like the S engine with the cam cover so easy to remove :( (no timing belt issue)

Yeah that sucks! Mine, I can have it out within 5 minutes:) I'm not going to use the sealant unless i absolutely have to use it! I mean that is was the gasket is for, right? Dude, $5 for a NA gasket? Damn, I paid 13 for mine, not that im complaining, but geeez!

Both Overkill and ae1969 seem to be confused about cam box and cam cover gaskets.

944 8 valve engines use a paper gasket that doesn't need any sealer. This engine has the cam inside the cam housing.

944 16 valve engines use a neoprene type gasket that does need sealer at the four edges where the sealer was previously.
This engine has a alloy casting covering the camshafts.
The seals are meant to "aucoustically decouple" the cam cover form the engine to reduce vibration (apparently??)

If you are replacing the gasket, make sure you also replace the rubber seals on the bolts too. And DO NOT OVER TORQUE the bolts!!!!

BTW also check the length of those bolts. I don't know if you just pulled them out and mixed them up, but there are 2 different lengths, make sure the proper length is in the proper hole or the cam cover will not seat properly. Follow the proper torqueing sequence and you'll be all set.

Cheers,

Wel, I kept the bolts in the right order. The gasket needs a sealant? Like RTV? I had saw this epoxi looking crap on it.

Yes, it uses sealer...
The factory used some white stuff, any good rtv should work.
It only needs to be applied at each corner and not too much either. I use a small amount of grease on the rest of the gasket to allow it to settle onto the head surface.