951 OFFICIAL Nurburgring times??

[mueller944s2]

So I've tried to search for official times for the S2 and couldn't come up with anything. But now that my S2 has 240hp I started looking for 951 times and still came up with nothing! I know there are many videos on YouTube but I was hoping that there might be a professional time like those on the Wikipedia list? I want to see what it can do compared to other cars. Any input is greatly appreciated (like always)!

[924RACR]

I suspect you'll find the pattern of posting times is far too recent. If you'll find any posted, they won't be stock - they'd have to be on the original tires, which haven't been made in God knows how long.

Manufacturers (German ones, at least) have long used the 'Ring as a test track. But it's only recently been about a number; previously, it's about getting good performance out there and having a car that drives subjectively well.

[ditch68]

I have a little Nurburgring decal on my 951 but Ive never driven it (not yet, anyway). That's how pathetic I am. :P

Would be very interested to hear what you find out.

Jeff

[JJ 911SC]

Not on this list but still fun to look at; List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mueller944s2]

Does anybody know what this is? Group F? This can't be an N/A with this time, I mean I don't think a stock turbo can reach this time can it?? AMAZING!

8:14.00 -- 151.81 km/h - Porsche 944 Group F, Packeisen/Knott

[962porsche]

in germany race group F is what improved touring class S is in the states under SCCA rules . they can do more to there motors then they let us do here in the states though . but the cars are very close other than that . so if you look up the scca rules for ITS you will have an idea .

a 8:14 is not a very quick time at the ring ! my stock 4 door BMW 540 sedans can turn just under 8 minute laps on summer sport tires .
also did i not see on top gear some years back a stock jag turned under a 8 minute lip there ?

putting a sticker on your car when you have never even ran at a track is kind of point less . you put the sticker on after you have raced at the tracks as a badge of honor . your telling other racer you raced some were you never have . why ?

[ditch68]

Originally Posted by 962porsche

putting a sticker on your car when you have never even ran at a track is kind of point less . you put the sticker on after you have raced at the tracks as a badge of honor . your telling other racer you raced some were you never have . why ?

You are right.

I just really am in awe of that whole concept the Ring represents, and Germany's different view on performance cars, driving, and motorsports in general. A public tollway that is a racetrack? I wish we could have that here.

The sticker a tribute to that, not any phony attempt at implying I have run the course. I should get a Road America one, if I can find one. Sorry you see it that way, but I do see why you do. Not all of us will ever get to race on famous road courses, but are nonetheless real enthusiasts.

Jeff

[mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by 962porsche

in germany race group F is what improved touring class S is in the states under SCCA rules . they can do more to there motors then they let us do here in the states though . but the cars are very close other than that . so if you look up the scca rules for ITS you will have an idea .

a 8:14 is not a very quick time at the ring ! my stock 4 door BMW 540 sedans can turn just under 8 minute laps on summer sport tires .
also did i not see on top gear some years back a stock jag turned under a 8 minute lip there ?

putting a sticker on your car when you have never even ran at a track is kind of point less . you put the sticker on after you have raced at the tracks as a badge of honor . your telling other racer you raced some were you never have . why ?

Really? Seems pretty fast to me, I mean the Ferrari 355 was 8:13 and the 996 GT3 is 8:03. Since the Cayman S did 8:16 I guess a stock 944 (any of them) probably can't reach 8:14

[gricec]

The jag was under 10 minutes and i fdont think it wa the whole course.

8:14 is a good time. A Cayman is there or ther abouts. I would be suprised if a 540i could get around in 8 minutes. a e46 m3 csl is 7.50 and that would run rings (exuse the pun) around any 540.

Also there is no real official timing. Its all done by the manufacturers /race teams so you have to take it with a pinch of salt really.

[mueller944s2]

I gotcha. So what would be the best way to compare cars? Like I know alot of cars are faster than the 944 in a straight line, but how would you compare on a racetrack scenerio where the 944 has handling advantages? I thought the Ring because everyone uses it, but any other ideas?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by mueller944s2

I gotcha. So what would be the best way to compare cars? Like I know alot of cars are faster than the 944 in a straight line, but how would you compare on a racetrack scenerio where the 944 has handling advantages? I thought the Ring because everyone uses it, but any other ideas?

944 doesn't have a handling advantage over much, esp nothing modern, and esp in stock form.

[mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

944 doesn't have a handling advantage over much, esp nothing modern, and esp in stock form.

My mom has a BMW Z4 and my S2 is better in every possible way. I can take turns much faster, get off the line faster, control it in a slide better, more comfortable. I literally can't think of anything the Z does better. I mean the electronic stability stuff is always a plus, but I think (my personal opinion of course), that nothing can substitute for physics (car layout) and a driver that knows the car. I've lost newer mustangs (like all of us have) on turns, among other things. I think our cars are more capable than we sometimes give them credit for!

[Brozoar]

I think our best bet is just to assume that the 944 - a front-engined, water-cooled Porsche - would measure up pretty nearly to its closest contemporary relative.

So whatever the Panamera can do it in, that's your time for the 944. :P Or would the Cayenne's time be a better match......

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by mueller944s2

My mom has a BMW Z4 and my S2 is better in every possible way. I can take turns much faster, get off the line faster, control it in a slide better, more comfortable. I literally can't think of anything the Z does better. I mean the electronic stability stuff is always a plus, but I think (my personal opinion of course), that nothing can substitute for physics (car layout) and a driver that knows the car. I've lost newer mustangs (like all of us have) on turns, among other things. I think our cars are more capable than we sometimes give them credit for!

Z4 is almost always going to be a better car then the s2, esp stock for stock. better suspension all round, as in real rear suspension. more rigid monocoque, better springs and dampers (again stock for stock) only real difference is its a bit heavier, but still 50:50. it also has more power to compensate. and while controllable in a spin feels good, the front engine/rear trans gives our cars a much large moment of inertia then the tighter BMW.

the Z4 competes well with the boxster/caymen, it utterly destroys a 25 year old porsche. sorry, i love my 951 more then anyone, but its closer to 30 years old compared to a near brand new car? no contest.

compared to its contemporaries, no problem, smokes em all, but car design has progressed. dead are semi-trailing arm suspensions, even normal passengers cars are as stiffly sprung, damped, and barred as our cars were stock. bigger, fatter, wider and stickier rubber is the norm on even mild performance cars then our cars came with.

and don't tell me i don't know how to drive, won my class several times with this car:

[962porsche]

you can only run the hole course at the ring there is a town in the center of it . they do not add in the race track that is there that is a hole other track .
the jag that was on top gear did the lap in 9 minutes 12 seconds with a diesel S-Type .
i owned a 355 ferrari they are pigs ! they do handle good but hp and tork not that good at all .
if you have ever run at the ring you will know that 8 minute laps are average for many cars . even low hp and tork cars .
most of us just use GPS timing but they do hold timed events at the ring quight often . my lap ticket from there i have states 7:59.006 . now i will have to add that i have been racing from the age of 17 and do race in the ALMS with a GT3 RS i also race my old 962 6 to 10 times a year . with that being said if a gt3 only turned a lap of 8:03 the driver should take his foot off the brake or take the E-brake off .
it is not uncommon at all because of the quality of drivers to get much deferent times even in the same car . case in point is just look at lap times of 944's at porsche events .

[petrolhead611]

And don't forget that a 'Ring taxi driver Sabine Schmidt beat the Jag's time in a box-stock Ford Transit panelvan!.

[962porsche]

thats right i forgot about that ! LOL that was funny as hell ! when i lived over there i would go to the ring once or twice a month at 1st my times were very slow . because the laps are so long 12.9 miles i think they are it is very hard to ever turn the so called perfect lap . but like any track themore you run it the more you get to know it and on any track that is the key . i do know that track now like the back of my hand . every little dip ripple and bump on the track . there is also the fact that you have to know your car as well .

when it comes to driving at speed there is no substitute for real seat time . i go to the track once or twice a week and have do so for the last 17 years . any time i can get into a car i do ! i will go race one of my 944's then days later i will be in the 962 then in my F1000 car . by doing so you keep your driving sharpened to a razors edge .

JEFF
i really hate to say this but one big reason you will not see that type of thing here in the states is the mind set of the drivers here . the US drivers really are not that good .

i don't want to start crap from me saying that !

you would have to drive in other countrys to see just what and why i said that . when your at the ring other drivers let you pass then and you do the same for them . here even on track days you get drip sticks that don't even want to give you a point by . on public roads you get dip sticks just sitting in the passing lane then for no reason they move to the driving line and then back to the passing lane . they drive all over the roads from one lane to another with no though at all . other countrys driving is a privilege but in the states it's a right .
a driving test here in the states is a total joke and people fail it here ! go over seas and take a driving test . there 10 times harder .

[mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

Z4 is almost always going to be a better car then the s2, esp stock for stock. better suspension all round, as in real rear suspension. more rigid monocoque, better springs and dampers (again stock for stock) only real difference is its a bit heavier, but still 50:50. it also has more power to compensate. and while controllable in a spin feels good, the front engine/rear trans gives our cars a much large moment of inertia then the tighter BMW.

the Z4 competes well with the boxster/caymen, it utterly destroys a 25 year old porsche. sorry, i love my 951 more then anyone, but its closer to 30 years old compared to a near brand new car? no contest.

compared to its contemporaries, no problem, smokes em all, but car design has progressed. dead are semi-trailing arm suspensions, even normal passengers cars are as stiffly sprung, damped, and barred as our cars were stock. bigger, fatter, wider and stickier rubber is the norm on even mild performance cars then our cars came with.

and don't tell me i don't know how to drive, won my class several times with this car:

That's an interesting point. The Z4 just doesn't work for me though. The Z4 hides its limits, you can take a turn fast and feel planted longer than the S2, but once you cross that line there's a problem, had lots of other Z4 owners agree on that, whereas the S2 can easily be controlled once traction is breaking, not to mention you know where the limit is. I spend lots of time weekly in both cars shootin them around corners and the Z4 just isn't as good, but its important to note that our Z4 is an E85 not E89. I admit it's quick, but the S2 is so much faster its ridiculous. I like the BMW, but the S2 is just better by far.

[ditch68]

Originally Posted by 962porsche

JEFF
i really hate to say this but one big reason you will not see that type of thing here in the states is the mind set of the drivers here . the US drivers really are not that good .

i don't want to start crap from me saying that !

you would have to drive in other countrys to see just what and why i said that . when your at the ring other drivers let you pass then and you do the same for them . here even on track days you get drip sticks that don't even want to give you a point by . on public roads you get dip sticks just sitting in the passing lane then for no reason they move to the driving line and then back to the passing lane . they drive all over the roads from one lane to another with no though at all . other countrys driving is a privilege but in the states it's a right .
a driving test here in the states is a total joke and people fail it here ! go over seas and take a driving test . there 10 times harder .

I agree %110. I lament the poor driving skill and flat out dis courteousness of drivers here every day. I have a 70 mile round trip commute, mostly 6 lane freeway. People seem to think the far left is for cruising at the speed THEY want to, and never want to g ot the center. The left should be for overtaking ONLY, center for cruising, and right for slowest of drivers and exiting. Then you get on a 4 lane stretch and they will NEVER move over, because they will have to keep doing so repeatedly because of the speed variances, so they just plant themselves in the left lane.


No turn signals, coming off the on ramp and swinging all 3 lanes over without looking, it goes on and on. I HATE most American drivers.

Jeff

[962porsche]

it's about the same for me . i own 3 shop in 3 deferent towns so all day i have to drive from one to the other . this morning on my way into the fab shop this dip stick is getting in the highway with his BENZ and crosses over 3 lanes and just misses hitting me . i pull up next to him and he has a cup of coffee in his left hand and holding onto the wheel with it and he is talking on his phone and that was in his right hand . there is a reason why you don't get cup holders in you 944's . driving is a task all by it's self and that is all you should be doing . when i lived in germany you get big ass fines for drinking coffee and talking on your phone . here in the states it's a every day thing . what really gets me are the dip sticks that want to put cup and phone holders in there cars . it kind of tells you why there are more top german drivers in F1 than any other .