Camshaft removal !

matty89 · matty89's Garage

How do i take the Cam shaft out of its housing ? i took all the bolts off and it seem to be holding with something ...ideas ? i droped a socket in the housing and i had a allen bit break in the housing when taking apar so i need to Clean it out ...

porsche 944 NA 1986 SOHC 8 valves !

John_AZ · 08-28-2010, 03:29 PM

matty,
Ignore my PM and maybe the picture will help. I understand now.
John

HondaDustR · 08-28-2010, 06:23 PM

Make sure everything's accounted for! Stuff could fall down one of the 4 oil drains in the head down into the crankcase.

The cam is a PITA to extract from the housing without damaging anything in my experience. The front bearing flange must be removed, the lifters must be removed, and any bolts or other stray parts must be removed as well. From there, it's just gently rotating and pulling straight out, being careful not to nick the bearings in the housing with the cam lobes. The bearing clearances are pretty tight, so moving the bearing surfaces on the cam through the bearings in the housing until it's completely free is tedious.

Capt Squid · 08-28-2010, 08:15 PM

Probably best to leave the cam in place. You will probably damage the cam bearings when you remove and re-install the cam.

Turn the cam tower over and shake the parts out or fish them out with a magnet. Make sure you account for ALL the stud nuts. Last year at 944 Spec nationals, we changed a head and a nut went through the top of the cam tower when the engine was fired. The car owner had counted the nuts and had the correct number. One for a previous removal must of been in the tower.

If you cannot remove your missing parts get another tower. There a a bunch of them around.

HondaDustR · 08-28-2010, 08:40 PM

While I would agree it's easier to leave the cam inside if you can, I would remove it any day than scrapping the whole thing. As long as you are patient and reasonably careful, it should be fine, but yeah...if it's large pieces like that, you can probably just shake them out through the lifter holes.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

are al l the cam lobes seperated meaning that i could shoot alot of brake cleaner in the one hole i lost my boxe and there is metal from the head bolt taht broke in and will be able to extract everything ? i have a way to buy an other one in canada before next week ? i wanted to drive the car the 16 september for my b day ... so 2 weeks

HondaDustR · 08-29-2010, 07:51 AM

Each pair of lobes is separated by a bearing support in the housing. That would work to flush out any metal, but if it were me knowing there's fine metal particles loose in there, I would pull it apart and flush out the whole thing including the oil passages just to be sure. It's possible you could flush something into the bearing and scour it up.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

i noticed that yah its bearings support like bearing on a crank... so i have to remove the cam or get a new housing with the cam in it ..... but now i have an other problem i got the socket out but now a lifter is stuck in the head... it wont come out all the way so i have see if any metal is flying around in there.... i found a cam housing with cam but if my lifter is dead .... any tests to do on lifters ? or a way to get it out... turnin the cam doesnt make it come all the way out and my finger isnt strong enought taht is hard to say loll

HondaDustR · 11:34 AM

They can fit pretty closely to the housing, so it may just be that. Can you push it back in and maybe spray it with WD40 or something. You could then try to pop it back out and grab it with some pliers padded with cardboard or folded up paper towels.

The lifters should be stored submerged in oil and they should be smooth and flat on the face that runs on the cam. The button inside should be firm. If not, soak for awhile in oil with the oil feed hole facing up and pump it while in the oil to try to release the bubbles. See this for a more detailed breakdown. Waking up a "dead" lifter prior to installation

If you do determine you need to get another cam, make sure you get the right one. The later ones have a slightly better exhaust profile and is an upgrade that can be made to an early engine. If you have a late cam already, make sure you replace it with one.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

so if there not in oil from when i took them out they are dead now ? amd what you mean soft part of the lifter i dont see that part ....

HondaDustR · 08-29-2010, 11:49 AM

Not necessarily. Even if the oil drains down, they will usually pump back up once reinstalled and run. It just helps keep them full of oil, as extended runing with them "flat" can kill them. The round part that contacts the valve stem is the piston and should have little to no travel if properly filled with oil. If the oil drains out from extended sitting around or if the piston or check valve is worn and not sealing well, the button will feel soft. Sometimes you can get them to fill up and harden up by soaking in oil and pressing the button while submerged, often times they will just pump back up ok on their own once the engine is run, and sometimes they never do even when run because the check valve doesn't seal and/or the piston and bore is worn. The last case will give you the loud clacking of a collapsed lifter and it should be replaced. If they were quiet before, they are probably fine. Just store them in oil until reassembly. They will not instantly be killed just by sitting out of oil for any length of time. It just helps them stay full so they don't clack from needing to pump back up.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

all try some long noosse with plyer's and see if it comes out! or else my cam looks not bad its used on the left side on each lobe of my cam when its used the the way both sides it will be dead ?

HondaDustR · 08-29-2010, 03:40 PM

[QUOTE=matty89;5532731 its used on the left side on each lobe of my cam when its used the the way both sides it will be dead ?[/QUOTE]

You lost me there...
but as long as the cam lobes are smooth and not scoured or torn up looking, it should be fine. There is no official factory spec for the cam lobe measurements that I'm aware of. The case hardenning on them seems to be pretty thick and holds up to alot of miles and newer oil formulations that are less than ideal for older large flat tappet valvetrains.

chally72 · 08-29-2010, 03:48 PM

I think he's talking about what he thinks is wear on one side of each cam lobe. Replies to my exact same question in my thread in the turbo section were that this is not wear, but how the cam should be.

This wear improves oiling to the lifter, I assume by helping to spin the lifter in its bore so it cant plug itself up always running up and down in the same track.

matty89 · matty89's Garage

i got the lifter that was stuck out of the cam housing ! now i have to sand the housing a bit there is a few scratchs on it before i reassemble ! wish me luck! should be running this week end or next week ! the Lifter was blocked in because i have to use a zip gun in the cam housing because my allen key broke in it !

i have 2 lifters that are dead for now any way to put them back to life ? is there a methot with oil in the chamber that i could use ?i tried quickly this morning not much luck

HondaDustR · 08-30-2010, 11:43 AM

If they were generally quiet before, they'll probably pump back up fine when you run it again. Sometimes that takes as long as 15 min of running. I guess perfect lifters should stay firm indefinitely, but sometimes they'll get the oil squished out of them holding a valve open when the motor stopped, or they're a little worn and drain down after sitting awhile, but pump up fine once the engine is started. I posted a bunch of info and a link with a bunch of info that goes into more detail. If there's alot of travel in the piston, near the full travel of 1/8", then they may be done for if they don't get hard again when the piston is pumped repeatedly, but again, see sentence #1 of this post.

More info. Bennington Motorsports

matty89 · matty89's Garage

anyone have a place i could order aftermarket lifters ? they are 74$ on PP :S im going low on cash lol

John_AZ · 08-31-2010, 10:06 AM

matty89, INA are the aftermarket lifters.

Many owners and mechanics would not use INA lifters because they tend to fail soon.

Most owners would trust good Porsche OEM lifters that are 20+ years old.

You might want to place a WTB-(want to buy) "good used lifters for 944"add on the Pelican forum for used parts classified:
Porsche 924/944/968 Used Parts For Sale & Wanted - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I did just see a set of 8 on eBay also.

GL
John

matty89 · matty89's Garage

i made a post but most people sell all the 8 when i need only 2 -.- anyways all see what happen's many i wont drive my car on my b -day 16 spetember lol no biggie

HondaDustR · 08-31-2010, 11:22 AM

I picked up a complete original used set for like $40 shipped a year or so ago. Out of the bunch, 5 or 6 were very good and only one was really kind of iffy. It's always nice to have spares around, too. Hit up a few parting out threads on the classifieds and you'll probably be able to find something.

Here's the difference between the new OEM lifters on the left and the original OEM lifters on the right. They are both made by INA, but the newer less reliable ones spell INA in large letters whereas the originals have a very small INA logo and another triangular looking logo found on other Porsche parts.