what's locking the engine up

[malpaslane]

Hi,

I have just bought a 944 2.5 1984 for a daily driver, i was told that the car had been parked up in a garage for 8-9 years, it had a new clutch fitted just before being taken off the road and was only taken off the road because of ill health, i had the car towed to my garage to start work on it and after checking around the car to see what was working and what was not, i turned the engine over by hand to see if it was ok and wasn't seized, it turned over ok and i,m 99% sure i turned it a complete 360.

Now for my problem, after checking electrics and other parts, i tried to see if the engine would turn with the starter, but all i got was clicking from the starter, i then tried to turn the engine over by hand again, but this time it locked up after about 180 on camshaft sprocket, tried going anti clockwise,but it locked up at the point i had started from, which was about half a tooth out from the timing mark on the camshaft sprocket , i then took the starter out to see if that was stuck and after doing that the engine was the same, next i took the camshaft housing off and all looks fine with that, the belts for a car stood for 8 years looked like new and taking the inlet manifold off i can't see any bent valves.

My next thought was after reading some of the posts on pelican was that something has happen in the bottom of the engine, but is there anything else i should check before opening that up.

Any help would be great

Thanks
Rik

[jwade944]

Take out the spark plugs and look at the tops of the pistons. Make sure nothing is blocking the top of the pistons (like gasoline.) If everything looks good, try manually turning the engine again without the spark plugs. One possibility is that an injector is stuck open and filled a cylinder with gasoline. Your symptoms sound like something on the top end - not the bottom.

An American is sitting in a pub and overhears two women talking. He turns to them and asks "Are you ladies from Scotland?" One of the women turns to him and says "That's Wales jerk." So the American replies "Are you whales from Scotland?"

(Sorry - that's my only Welsh joke.)

[Jfrahm]

Since the clutch was recently changed I'd suspect something in that area.

[jpk]

There was a recent thread about a 928 motor that something very similar; turned out to be a bit of carbon build up from the combustion chamber flaked off and was preventing the piston from completing it's stroke. The timing mark on the cam belt sprocket is for TDC on cylinders 1 and 4, so it could be either of those.
A leaking head gasket could also allow water/coolant to pool up in one of the cylinders.

[AaronM]

If all you got was a clicking from the starter, your battery is low and needs replacing. Even if the engine is stuck you should get more than just a click.

Not saying that there won't turn out to be more to it than that, but personally I'd start with a freshly charged battery.

Remember, the starter will draw more amperage than pretty much everything else combined (usually between 75 and 100 amps) so just because the headlights seem OK (about a 10 amp draw total for 2 55-watt bulbs) it doesn't mean the battery is any good.

[guru944]

malpasslane:

*** First, Do a complete Motor Oil Change recommend 10w-30 ***
Clutch is disengaged from Flywheel...

1 Recommend Pulling Spark plugs (keep them out)

2 Using a small camera scope or Mirror if all is clear squirt a little liquid wrench or little oil (5/10w-30) into each chamber

3 Manually crank front pulley via a 1/2 drive long wrench or lock bar 720' degrees or 2 full rotations Clockwise.

4 If all is well check front timing tensioner pulley or idler pulley for play.
also check for proper timing belt alignment and balancing belt.

5 Do compression test for each cylinder (Variance should be with ~10% of each other)

This procedure will point you in the right direction.

Keep us posted, Later.

[guru944]

malpasslane:

*** First, Do a complete Motor Oil Change recommend 10w-30 ***
Clutch is disengaged from Flywheel...

1 Recommend Pulling Spark plugs (keep them out)

2 Using a small camera scope or Mirror if all is clear squirt a little liquid wrench or little oil (5/10w-30) into each chamber

3 Manually crank front pulley via a 1/2 drive long wrench or lock bar 720' degrees or 2 full rotations Clockwise.

4 If all is well check front timing tensioner pulley or idler pulley for play.
also check for proper timing belt alignment and balancing belt.

5 Do compression test for each cylinder (Variance should be with ~10% of each other) Using Starter to crank.

This procedure will point you in the right direction.

Keep us posted, Later.

[guru944]

Malpaslane

Oil drains down to the oil pan sometimes 60-70 days without engine start.
you will need to prime the engine/Oil pump

****Oh! Critical Thing.. Once oil is drained and refilled, before replacing filter. ***

The best way to do this is to pour some oil down the both opening at the oil filter mount (every 90' degrees) and then By Hand or wrench manually crank engine counter clockwise 720' degrees/ 2 times. That will prime the Oil pump.

also Full oil filter with oil 75% let it sit for 10 min prior to install (spill a little oil/messy to install sometimes) .

Then you may proceed with the testing/later attempt to start.

Keep us posted PM me if you need more help...

Blessings, Later...

[Gawernator]

Why 10w-30? ..

[guru944]

Gawernator:

Less viscosity =more flow..... see my responses on 20w-50? post

later...

[malpaslane]

Hi and thanks for all your ideas,

First, i have checked to see if there was anything stopping the pistons from reaching their full rotation,there's no fuel or water or anything blocking the cylinder bore and the valves all look fine, the starter was sticking, but taking it out made no difference, the motor will only turn 180 clockwise stop and go 180 back to where it started from, belts, pulleys and tensioners all look and seem in good condition, i,ve tried abit of oil in the bores, but nothing worked........so, out came the motor.

Tonight the sump pan will be coming off to see what we have happening in there, i know you can't tell until the sump pan is off,but when the motor was out of the car and on my engine crane, i did turn it by hand again and being stood right next to it , i can hear some clicking from inside, but we find out later.

again, many thanks for ideas and help.

cheers
Rik

[malpaslane]

Hi,

Here is an update of what is locking the engine up on the 944 or what is not locking the engine up,as i said on my last post, i,ve taken the engine out of the car to try and get a better idea as what is locking it up...........and i,ve found nothing wrong apart from a head gasket that needed changing.

With the engine out , i took the sump pan off and have no bend rods, nothing broken,no bits of metal flakes in the oil and nothing out of place, STILL ENGINE WOULDN,T COMPLETE A FULL ROTATION, i then took the clutch housing off to see if any bolts or anything was stopping the engine turning, but found nothing apart from a clutch that could do with changing (p/o said that it had a new clutch before being taken off road) i think he was lying or was charged for a job that wasn,t done, STILL ENGINE WOULDN,T COMPLETE A FULL ROTATION, then the only part left to come off was the cylinder head just to make sure there was nothing wrong there, off it came and i,m still none the wiser, but the engine now rotates a complete 360.

So has anyone got any more ideas as to what could have been the problem before i rebuild it.


cheers
Rik

[malpaslane]

Here,s some photos of the block and the head just after i,d split them.

Any clues gentlemen.....

[zedsn]

Could the timing be off that caused one or more valves to open when they were not suppose to causing the valve heads to make contact with the pistons? And if so you may have bent a valve or two in the process.

[jpk]

It's that carbon build up. All that gook in cylinder three and on the head would do it. There is absolutely no extra clearance to allow for that kind of build up.

[guru944]

Malpaslane:

Nothing a little acetone, SS Brush and Brake cleaner and some cotton cloths cant clean up. Also be sure to check the front Oil pump system. and pick up tube...

Thanks for the Pictures, Later.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by jpk

It's that carbon build up. All that gook in cylinder three and on the head would do it. There is absolutely no extra clearance to allow for that kind of build up.

I was just going to suggest that crud could be the problem...been beaten to it..! I'm guessing acetone, brake cleaner or cellulose paint thinner is OK on the cylinder bore as I did wonder about the coating? Any issues here?

[mytrplseven]

If you pulled the head and the engine turns, it was valve timing (valves hit the pistons) and you need to have the valves checked (valve job) and then clean up the cylinders. This may be why the car was parked to start with. Sounds like the timing belt jumped a couple of teeth and caused the valves to hit the pistons. I'd take this opportunity to really go through the engine top to bottom and front to rear and replace all the seals, belts, water pump, rollers, rod bearings and bolts and get the injectors rebuilt (Witch hunter in Washington State ...about $100). You're looking at about $500 total and then you don't have to worry any more.