Low Oil Pressure + PS Pulley = Crank Bolt?

[exitwound]

My thoughts

I'm looking at low oil pressure (<1bar at normal temp, 4bar cold).

I had my power steering mounts fail on me (see: My journal entry) due to what I could see as a wobbly power steering pulley.

I took the crank bolt off today and found this had happened to my power steering pulley:

It appears as though the power steering pulley has been worn by the crank bolt more on one side than any other. The circular hole is now oval. I'm assuming that this isn't by design, correct? I'm assuming this wear is what is creating the wobble in my power steering pulley, consequently putting a cyclical tug-n-ebb of the tension on the power steering belt, ultimately causing hideous vibration in the power steering mounts, destroying my mounting hardware. Are my assumptions safe?

And because this isn't working properly, I'm assuming my oil pressure, due to the failing of this pulley, isn't coming from a properly torqued crank bolt/washer/pulley mount.

Here's the crank bolt:

It looks to be fine but anyone else want to confirm this?

What's Happened

I reinstalled the crank bolt but left the power steering pulley off to hopefully retrieve the lost pressure. My torque wrench can only measure up to 150ft/lbs (+/- 4ft/lbs). I stuck the car in 5th gear, parking break on, blocked the wheels so that the engine wasn't going to turn. At first, it looked like it was turning with the torquing, but I managed to get at least 150ft/lbs on the bolt. I turned the notch on the wrench to 155 (slightly over its final measurement) and got another click out of it with a few more attempts. I can see inside the top timing belt cover via the air hole at the top (near the cam gear) and confirmed that the engine was turning a little, but not on every torque attempt, therefore the bolt was torquing properly. I don't have a flywheel lock unfortunately.

I put the airbox back on, and the fans, reconnected the battery and took the car around the block. Since I had the car out an hour or two ago it's running slightly warmer than cold, and I have 2bars of pressure. But when I hit the gas and accelerated up the road, the bars jumped quickly to 4, then dropped back down to 2. This isn't related to acceleration pressure, but a significant jump in the needle as if the oil pump might be slipping. It did this twice, then settled back down at 1bar.

Do I most likely need to just torque down that bolt properly? Is it likely that my oil pump mounting face is worn and I need to acquire a new pump and no amount of torquing can fix it?

What do you guys think?

This is my LAST big hurdle before I feel safe driving the car long distances!

[nynor]

is it at 1 bar at idle? if so, the pump is not working properly, or you have badly worn crank bearings.

[exitwound]

All bearings were replaced less than 2000 miles ago.

[HondaDustR]

Try installing the PS pulley as centered as you can and just leave the PS belt off for now, or shim up the crank with something else that fits on it and is about the same thickness as the PS pulley to rule out the possibility of the bolt torque not transferring to the oil pump gear. Better yet, before reassembly, clean off the outside surfaces of the crank and oil pump gear and mark their alignment to each other ( or mark the gear in relation to the crank keyway) with some paint or something that will stay on long enough to be able to tell if they slipped if you still end up having problems.

Also, what does the other side of that crank bolt washer look like? Is it reasonably smooth and flat? If it is gouged or warped, it could be contributing to the problem, especially if the PS pulley hole got to be oval by being sandwitched between the washer and the end of the crank.

[bazar01]

Originally Posted by exitwound

I reinstalled the crank bolt but left the power steering pulley off to hopefully retrieve the lost pressure. My torque wrench can only measure up to 150ft/lbs (+/- 4ft/lbs).

If you left the power steering pulley off, you need a spacer the same thickness as the original thickness of the PS pulley to be able to put pressure on the oil pump drive gear. The spacer hole has to be a little bigger than the crankshaft journal. If you do this, you should get the correct oil pressure back.

[exitwound]

Hmm. Why wouldn't the bolt be putting proper pressure on it without the PS pulley installed?

[rsrmike]

Seems like the crank bolt would have been loose at some point to damage the power steering pulley. Why were the bearings replaced 2000 miles ago?

You may need a new inner oil pump drive gear... the contact surface is very small and any grooves or wear on it would leave even more room for error...

Check the washer between the crank sprocket for the cam belt and the oil pump drive gear while you have it apart.

That really is a stupid way to drive an oil pump...
Mike

[exitwound]

The engine was rebuilt because it wasn't in the car when I bought it. The previous owner had the engine out, ran out of money, and sold the car. That's the story anyway. At the time, everything replacable was replaced including journals, seals, etc.

I don't have the engine apart at this point. I was working on it in the driveway yesterday as the weather was nice. Took off the fans, the intake, and was able to remove the crank bolt. If I remove the crank pulley, I risk offsetting the timing belt, don't I?

Picture taken years ago

So the crank pulley pushes over the woodruff key to stay secure. When the PS Pulley is torqued down, what exactly is it pushing on? Is it the gear in the middle of this photo or is it something hidden? It's been a while since we restored this system and I'm hazy about how it went together.

[rsrmike]

Can't view the picture for somereason....
The P.S. pulley torques against the balanceshaft belt sprocket, which pushes against the cam belt sprocket which puts pressure on the oil pump drive, via a flat washer

I strongly suggest getting a 944 flywheel lock from out host:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/PORS/POR_PORS_PTOOLS_pg6.htm#item35

They are $47 It really makes like much easier

I would also inspect your oil pressure relief valve for any foreign debris that may hang it open as well

[exitwound]

Already did the OPRV. As far as I can tell, its not sticking.

I rehosted the pic on my own webspace so it should be visible now.

[exitwound]

I got the power steering pulley back on today and torqued down to 155ft/lbs. The results are the same as it was before I started, only now the power steering pulley is as centered as I can get it. 4bars at cold, <1bar at hot.

You can see from the first picture that there's a raised metal lip that's formed inside the ring of the power steering pulley. The crank bolt washer isn't seating properly inside the pulley, which might be attributing to the problem at this point.

At this point, seeing the pulley in such bad shape, it should be replaced. There's no way I can manage to seat the washer properly and have the pressure on the pulley working (from the bolt) with the distortion in the ring. This is best, yes?

I'm frustrated.

[bazar01]

Exit, the PS pulley is shot. Do not put it back because the web thickness is already worn and below the spec. You need to replace that.
With the power steering pulley installed, it should stick out of the crankshaft a little for the spacer and crank bolt to put pressure on the crank balance and cam belt pulley and to the oil pump drive gear.

[exitwound]

I will replace the pulley.

I realllly hope this is what's causing the low pressure. I don't want to find out that I'm chasing down ghosts only to end up with the same issues later.

[dan944944]

hi there,i also have the same problem as you do,unfortunately i cant find the answer as yet as im trying to find out what year my oil pump is.ive noticed that in your picture you have exactly the same oil pump number as mine! could you tell me if you dont mind too much what model and year it is,and also if you know if its a pattern part or not,mine says 9441071049r like yours but cant seem to match it anywhere! could you tell me what one i need? i got really exited when i saw yours was the same as mine,hope you dont mind.thanks dan

[exitwound]

That oil pump is the one that came with my car when I bought it from its prior owner. I have no reason to believe it's been changed or updated. It's from a 1986 944 non-turbo. As far as I can tell, all of the engine parts are stock. Hope this helps!

[dan944944]

Originally Posted by exitwound

That oil pump is the one that came with my car when I bought it from its prior owner. I have no reason to believe it's been changed or updated. It's from a 1986 944 non-turbo. As far as I can tell, all of the engine parts are stock. Hope this helps!

thanks for that i will try that,the problem is by giving that casting number that matches the one on yours in the photo,places have told me that it doesnt make any sense to any model or year,but the major difference in 944 oil pumps is the back of them,becuase one of the oil ways has a slightly larger and different shape,so im still stuck for now but ill try an 86 and hope. after seeing your pictures of your ps pulley i think that is your problem,i dont know if you have one already but i might have a spare,i will look for you tonight! let me know if you do.best of luck dan

[exitwound]

Here's a picture of the back, taken years ago as well:

[dan944944]

thank you so much for the picture i really appreciate it! it is exactly the same as mine,so if i was to buy another, what would i ask for, a 1986 n/a pump?like i said before the number thats on the front just didnt work,and i dont know how to get hold of a used one from anywhere,its been 4 months now and its really a horrible feeling! i am really gratefull for your picture,becuase at least i know its not a turbo bottom end.thanks again dan

[exitwound]

There's no one on the boards here who have one sitting around? I'd be shocked to be honest!

[dan944944]

thanks for everything, and good luck with yours.i willb keep reading your threads and if theres anything i could help you with i will! thanks again, dan