Is it me or are they crazy?

[pfarah]

I'm not sure if my expectations are too skewed but, I called the local Porsche dealership and an independent European auto repair facility with this question:
"How much does your shop charge to simply verify proper timing/balance belt tension and adjust if necessary?" Are you all ready for this?...

Porsche of Norwell: $312.00 (2.5 hrs).
Motor Cars International, Bridgewater: $340.00 (3.5 hrs).

My question to all of you fellow Pelicans is: Are these prices in line with where you all live? Almost 10% of the typical purchase price for an early 8 valve car just to check the belt tension, in my opinion, is simply nuts. According to many reviews, Arnnworx.com sells a proper tensioning tool (supposed to be simpler to use, more accurate and substantially cheaper that of the P-9201 tool) for $160.00. I already have the correct 27mm wrench, enough tools to build a custom car/bike/plane/etc. and have become fairly intimate with most aspects of my 84' since ownership last year. With those ridiculous service prices, I should purchase the Arnnworx tool and do it myself unless someone in New England (somewhat close to SE MASS) is willing to help me out. I'll pay a fair price but admittedly, I'm leaning heavily on doing it myself... Thanks for letting me vent; I guess people want to retire on every job...

[CHICKS]

Yep, thats what they charge, its retarded.

You can do this youself, it's very easy to do. Van S. has a good video on how to do it without the tool, but I've used the the arnnworx tool with no problem too. People hype the belts up like if you look at them wrong they will break...not the case. Try it, and hit us up if you have any questions.

[944tothefloor]

They aren't as crazy as you are if you pay their price! Interesting to see current prices for the job. Just go in there and check youself. Listen to CHICKS; watch van's rather excellent video on youtube and don't overthink the belts because they aren't that delicate in my opinion. High stakes, yes. Delicate, not so much. Good luck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqc0mm-7ukY&sns=em

There are 3 parts to the vid.

[pfarah]

The fact is actually, my car is fine right now. Belts, rollers, wp, etc. were replaced last December and have about 5k miles on them. A tension check was performed 1,300 miles after replacement and she's purring quite nicely. I was only interested in seeing what the job would cost ( I figured $100-150.00). I'll be damned if I pay those prices, especially since I've performed the majority of maintenance/restoration work. Besides, it's a great excuse to buy another specialized tool!!

[jcommin]

It is over $100/book hour in Chicago. Price is about right.

[Horrido]

I have had one local very reputable independent shop do this gratis and the other charged one hour of labor.

Dan

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by pfarah

Almost 10% of the typical purchase price for an early 8 valve car just to check the belt tension, in my opinion, is simply nuts.

The fault here is basing the maintenance costs of a car that, in today's dollars, sold new for over $50,000, on the depreciated used-car price you paid for it.

Maintenance costs are commensurate with the car's position in the market at the time it was originally sold, not with what you happen to pay for a 25+ year old example. Only a fool thinks otherwise.

Remember, in 1986, the cheapest 944 you could buy was $24,500. This was at a time when a fully-loaded Accord topped out at $13,125. These were EXPENSIVE cars when they were new and maintenance costs will reflect that.

Plus, they're a bit of a pain to work on. 2.5 to 3.5 hours to check and adjust the belt tension is not at all unreasonable given what has to come off to get at it easily. And $100 to $110 per hour is a pretty normal labor rate these days.

[bell]

Our shop charges 1 hour for a retension adjustment......we are $96/hour.
we also do a full courtesy check on your car and let you know what needs attention....
We are a very busy shop :-)

[bell]

Pull the PS and a/c belts.......5 minutes
Pop of the upper timing cover......5 minutes
Set engine to tdc.....
Measure tension and adjust both belts.....10-15 minutes max for both belts.....
Reassemble......10 minutes
Figure a little extra for setting it up on the lift, plus 10-15 minutes for the courtesy check/written estimate....
I still come out ahead......

[pfarah]

Why did I ever move out of Florida?...

I understand the reason of maintenance cost fluctuations as well as where these cars stood in the pecking order 30 years ago. Still, I'm not sold on the idea of 3.5 hrs labor time. As an experienced hobbyist mechanic (is that a real term?) I am fairly confident in performing this project in the allotted time frame. Does this make me a super P Technician? I think not... Many friends of mine are mechanics so I understand the "book rates", however; that doesn't mean I have to follow them into the abyss. After all, this is just a hobby for some/most of us, right? Nothing like the present to learn and cherish this process

[9FF]

...Figure a little extra for setting it up on the lift, ...

Ah, a lift, takes me 40mins just to get the car on stands.

Chock rear wheels
Jack up one side
Insert stand
Lower jack slowly
Readjust jack stand
Remove jack
Jack up other side while watching first jack stand carefully in case it moves
Insert other stand
Lower jack slowly
Readjust jack stand
Repeat on rear while readjusting the front stand that is now not supporting weight
Car not high enough
Repeat

It gets old fast!

[Jrboulder]

Quote de pfarah

Almost 10% of the typical purchase price for an early 8 valve car just to check the belt tension, in my opinion, is simply nuts.

The fault here is basing the maintenance costs of a car that, in today's dollars, sold new for over $50,000, on the depreciated used-car price you paid for it.



Maintenance costs are commensurate with the car's position in the market at the time it was originally sold, not with what you happen to pay for a 25+ year old example. Only a fool thinks otherwise.



Remember, in 1986, the cheapest 944 you could buy was $24,500. This was at a time when a fully-loaded Accord topped out at $13,125. These were EXPENSIVE cars when they were new and maintenance costs will reflect that.



Plus, they're a bit of a pain to work on. 2.5 to 3.5 hours to check and adjust the belt tension is not at all unreasonable given what has to come off to get at it easily. And $100 to $110 per hour is a pretty normal labor rate these days.

Stop making sense

[9FF]

Stop making sense

Great album!

[Jrboulder]

Also keep in mind that most shops and all dealers want nothing to do with 944's. Some might put up with them but very few actually want to work on them. They don't know them and they're plenty busy doing routine stuff on newer or more expensive Porsches.

[Gawernator]

Haha my cousin's shop charges about that for an oil change. I know a local shop quoted me like $1,800 for timing belt replacement

[tamathumper]

Although I have to say that working on these old cars with rusty bolts, rusty 6mm studs in the face of the block, and pulleys that are stuck on from years of heat, I wouldn't be in a hurry to quote the timing belts / water pump job cheaply either.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by tamathumper

Although I have to say that working on these old cars with rusty bolts, rusty 6mm studs in the face of the block, and pulleys that are stuck on from years of heat, I wouldn't be in a hurry to quote the timing belts / water pump job cheaply either.

That is so true! I remember replacing the suspension arms on my Boxster as I had been quoted an outrageous sum for a garage to do it. However, the fronts were simple - no real problem, but the rears . Years of water and road crud being washed into the bush which was then heated by the exhaust meant the bolts were not going to give up easily. Many hours of 'battle' ensued, WD40, propane blowlamp, lump hammer, skinned knuckles - oh you know the story...

I am not too sure whether it would have been cheaper (certainly easier) for me to go down the 'professional' route - but I did feel a real sense of satisfaction and achievement when it was done.

So, lets face it..the pros and going to have to face all the same mechanical situations that we do, and try to make a living too (but some do charge rather a lot!).

[djnolan]

To retension just remove the upper belt cover, put a wrench on the crank pulley and set to tdc and make the adjustments. I have skinny arms, so removing other things provides more room to work but it can be done without jacking up the car, removing the alt or ps belts, air box, etc. On an S you do need to remove the airbox to get to the belt cover.

[bell]

Exactly......
Also we charge 2.5 to change timing/balance belts on na cars......if we run into stubborn bolts etc we will consult with the customer about it and charge additional accordingly....