1986 944 NA -- Good deal? Nigthmares to look for?

[DJC911]

This car is advertised for sale locally. I pass the dealer every day when I take my oldest to school in my 911. Thought a nice, basic 944 would be slightly more practical as my daily driver than the 81 911. In any event, at $3175, the price seems reasonable (come down about $1k since first listed).



The car supposedly has 152k miles. I have heard about the water pumps and timing belts. These are torque tube cars, too, right, like the 928s? What is the service life on those? Any other things I should be concerned about? Who would be the best person to take this car to for a PPI (Phoenix, AZ)? Beck's shop is within a mile of this dealer. Does Beck do the watercooled cars? I take my 911 to Don Jackson.

There is a white 1989 fs locally (another dealer), too. The asking price is about $700 more. No idea on mileage or condition. I might investigate it, too.

FYI -- the selling point for me is the price vs. apparent condition (though I have not yet examined the car). The thought process is that if I could get into this relatively cheaply, then I could focus more $$$ and time on improving the 911.

Thanks for any info. Also, has anyone else noticed the people seem to want more $$$ for 83-84 944s than 86-89? Why is that? If for no other reason, I prefer the later cars because of the changes to the interior.

[Eldorado]

dont be fooled by condition....
some that look to be junk are often great runners mechanically, and some that look pristine could harbour some nasty demons...

the price is fair and average for a 944 of running condition... and if all recent repairs (water pump, belts, brakes, etc etc) are done, then I dont think 3175 is unreasonable in the least.

Edit:

The thought process is that if I could get into this relatively cheaply, then I could focus more $$$ and time on improving the 911.

If you think owning two p-cars will enable you to spend more money on your 911, especially when the other car is a 944, I'd hate to burst your bubble... lol
the 944's have a nasty habit of racking up repair bills (if you dont do most of your own work.)

[Techno Duck]

Defenetly take a look at that '89 also. They have larger displacement at 2.7 liters and a bit more powerful.

The belt job..etc will tack on as much as $1000-1500 if you take it to a shop to have it done, or as little as $600 if you do everything yourself. So take that into account when purchasing this car. Consider a very good condition 944, excellent exterior, interior and up to date maitenence can bring about 6-7k at the absolute max.

Check to see if any of the cars have had the clutch done recently, thats a very expensive job at aprox. $1500. Very labor intensive for the DIY'er also.

[Eldorado]

The belt job..etc will tack on as much as $1000-1500 if you take it to a shop to have it done, or as little as $600 if you do everything yourself.

I replaced all belts on my car a couple months ago with the help of a forum member... cost me the price of the 4 belts and shipping ($85 approx from pelican) and i paid him a hundred bucks to put them on and inspect all rollers and pulleys.. in the end, all told, just on the belts alone it was about 3 hours worth of work (with a couple hours spent on other jobs as well.) no need for a $600 bill if you're going to do the job yourself.

[yellowline]

Originally posted by DJC911

Thanks for any info. Also, has anyone else noticed the people seem to want more $$$ for 83-84 944s than 86-89? Why is that? If for no other reason, I prefer the later cars because of the changes to the interior.

Late interiors are nicer. However, the early cars tend to be lighter. '83s have manual steering and sunroof, which are always pluses. The A-arm design makes balljoint replacements easier than the later cars. Since the only downsides are the ventilation and interior design, they make great track cars, being lighter and simpler from the start. Combine that with the fact that the earliest 944s are starting to become "classics," and their value is actually on a slight rebound.

[Eldorado]

'83s have manual steering

I have an '83 with power steering - it was an option.

[Techno Duck]

Originally posted by Eldorado
I replaced all belts on my car a couple months ago with the help of a forum member... cost me the price of the 4 belts and shipping ($85 approx from pelican) and i paid him a hundred bucks to put them on and inspect all rollers and pulleys.. in the end, all told, just on the belts alone it was about 3 hours worth of work (with a couple hours spent on other jobs as well.) no need for a $600 bill if you're going to do the job yourself.

I should have specified that includes purchasing all of the rollers, waterpump, gasket and front end seals. Not to mention if you opt to buy the specialized tools you need and which method you decide to take with tensioning the belt. That easily adds up to $600.

Of course just the belts will cost under $100.

[Eldorado]

yup.. i assumed that's what you meant, just wanted to be clear that the belts didn't add up to 600 bucks

[DJC911]

Originally posted by Eldorado
If you think owning two p-cars will enable you to spend more money on your 911, especially when the other car is a 944, I'd hate to burst your bubble... lol
the 944's have a nasty habit of racking up repair bills (if you dont do most of your own work.)

Well, I generally don't do the work myself, but not from lack of ability so much as lack of garage space and time...and I do understand your sentiment. What I am hearing is that I am crazy to be thinking of having a two porsche family. No doubt true, but as you can see, I have the bug...

I'm not expecting perfection, just a nice daily driver. I drove an 81 VW Pickup for 6 years (no AC in Arizona's 115 degree heat, even). It had its share of minor problems, but mostly I just did routine maintenance -- oil changes, brake pads, alternator, battery, and fuel pump/filter). That vehicle would have remained my daily driver if some lady in her Cadillac hadn't decided to rearrange the front end by pulling out of a parking lot in front of me.

[Eldorado]

I didn't mean to say that owning two p-cars was crazy... it's not at all, if i could then i probably would too... the idea i meant to get across was that you were crazy to think that owning another p-car (especially a 944) would give you "more time and money" to spend on your 911...

you could be blessed and find the cream of the crop as far as '44s go... but if you just take a quick gander around this forum and the number of people that have problems with their car - that just isn't the case for most (unfortunately)...

here's an interesting read...

Cost of Ownership - Year 1

my thinking is - if you want another porsche... a 944 is a great choice... but if you want another porsche so that you can "scratch that itch" while putting more time and money into your 911, be prepaired to put a similar amount of time and money into your 944...

[DJC911]

ElDorado -- Thanks for the short cut. I took a gander. I can tell you that I don't mind the small stuff...fluids, accessory belts, tires, brake pads, and the like. So long as they don't all happen at once. I didn't expect the car to be 100% maintenance free. But the $$$ for parts described there (except where the motor goes because of a snapped timing belt or dead water pump) are still better than the price of the unobtainium typically required to keep a 24 year old 911 roadworthy. In any event, at least if I had two, in theory ONE would be working (well, I can dream, anyway).

[livewirevoodoo]

Here's a good article on what to look for when purchasing:

944/944S/951/968 Buyer's Guide

Should be required reading before any purchase IMO.

As an update to my cost of ownership thread, this year's (year 2 of ownership, 6 months in) expenses would be practically none, repar-wise, other than regular maintenance.

Would a second 15+ year old porsche make practical sense as a daily driver? Hehehe... We're all probably the wrong ones to ask

[Tervuren]

My first 944 was the older style '85. I like the old interior I think better then the new. It just seemed mor rough and race like with its bare metal instrument cluster, etc... Car was a joy to drive.

[DJC911]

Well, this is an interesting discussion, anyway. The reality is that whether or not buying such a car truly makes sense, I have been a porschefile since I was 2 and will probably not stop until I have owned one of every model.

Though I have not called the dealer, I did not see the car today. So I think it's been sold. They ran a special over the weekend, but I didn't have time to check it out then. Oh well. There will always be others.

[Moneyguy1]

DJC911

I have worked on 'em all over the years: older 911s, 912s, 914s and even a 356 or two..

My take? The 944 is one of the prettiest cars ever designed.

Mechanically, it is typical German. Both over and underengineered at the same time. When everything works as designed, it will start with the slightest twitch and run like a bear. The "however" is the smallest thing can leave you stranded. Read the posts here about belts, seals, computer failure (lousy solder joints) fuel pumps/systems, clutch replacement difficulties, ring and pinion and the like.
One has to take into account the age of these machines and simple things such as metal fatigue, especially in aluminum. The 944 is tricky re: emission inspection. Do a search on this BB just on past problems people have run into. No matter what I have done in the past to mine, it passes, but at parts per million many times that of our Passat.
My 944. About a year ago developed a sudden "no start" condition. All steps were taken system by system (I am very methodical)...Spark? check...AFM working? checked, modified per FR's instructions..check..flywheel sensors...check...injectors (checked with home made noid) check..fuel flow...nada...check pump....not working....removed and checked at dealers...kaput....new pump...installed with new filter(s). Started...ran five minutes or so..stalled would not start again...back to square one...got to fuel pump step...new pump not working....return to vendor get new pump...car still sitting in garage. It has been sitting so long I will not drive it until I get new belts installed. Can I find someone to do this job in Tucson? SO far, the answer is "no". Now you have a 911. If you belong to the local PCA, that may help you find someone since you are "acceptable" and "mainstream.

Since you seem to farm out the work, a typical 944 CAN (but not necessarily will) nickel and dime you to death.
There are those who have been fortunate enough to find a 944 with all parts on the + end of the tolerance spectrum. Wish I were in that select group!!

Without going over the car personally, it would be possible that, in order to put it in top notch condition will cost big buck$. You need to know when certain systems were repaired/replaced such as clutch/pressure plate, engine oil seals, brake discs, steering rack, to mention a few. ANd, the age is not that much different than your 911 so the "unobtanium" sickness will be setting in soon and looking at the recent post re the unavilability of a specific brake line, it already may have begun.

Good luck whatever you decide. The 944 is fun to drive when everything works as it is supposed to.

[DJC911]

Zombie thread coming back to life. I actually don't farm out all the work. But when I got the 911 it was my daily driver and I couldn't afford for it to be sitting around while I waited for parts, etc.

Anyway, I had long since forgotten about this until recently when I was hunting around for and inexpensive car to drive and saw a few listed for cheap. Got me thinking about it again.

I grew up around Porsche+Audi dealerships because my Dad worked at several. So they are "in the blood". Getting an old p-car or Audi is like finding an old pair of comfy shoes. I could get an appliance car (Honda or Toyota) but they just don't appeal. I'm sure they'd be cheaper and easier to run, but they would disappear in parking lots around here.

Anyway, thanks for the tips and all. I re-read this thread to remind myself of what I'd be getting myself into if I decided to pick up a 944.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[tamathumper]

I don't think even zombies last 3038 days...!

[mytrplseven]

For me, the 944 is therapy. I love working on them, driving them and the occasional mystery as to "why something isn't doing what it's supposed to". I also agree, they are the coolest looking car to come out of Stuttgart. I'm on my 3rd.

[VOTS89]

What a riot, I believe I'm the one who bought this car, North Mountain Car Co on Cave Creek, right? I also drove past it several times before I decided to stop in and look it over. Took it for a test drive and decided to go for it, $3,100.

Just like you mentioned, I took it straight to Becks for a buyers inspection where it got a clean bill of health. Kept it for about a year and a half and with no problems and then sold it for $3,800

Bruce

[beamishnz]

Originally Posted by VOTS89

What a riot, I believe I'm the one who bought this car, North Mountain Car Co on Cave Creek, right? I also drove past it several times before I decided to stop in and look it over. Took it for a test drive and decided to go for it, $3,100.

Just like you mentioned, I took it straight to Becks for a buyers inspection where it got a clean bill of health. Kept it for about a year and a half and with no problems and then sold it for $3,800

Bruce

What a great 944 story! We need more like that! I've been 944 ing for 4 years. 944S and now S2 ... Other than obsessive preventative maintenance (my problem - not the cars) I have not had a problem other than leaking rad. Can't stress enough how important it is to buy the best condition one you can find. Neglected maintenance is expensive and time consuming to catch up.

"There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche"