Drive it or pull the motor!? (Poll)

[JD159]

Hi all,

Winter is finally coming to a definite end here in Canada. Gone on for far to long. As some of you might remember I posted a while back about my engine damage. My engine has had lots of performance mod's done to it, including the head and cams. Plenty invested, only to have it seemingly disappear when a lifter noise turned out to be so severe that I wore a hole through the lifter. The damage destroyed my cam lobe, scored up the head and cam's and brought me to the brink of parting out the car. I had enough. My mechanic helped me out, pulled some strings, and for a great deal had the same head and cam's reused. The high spots on the head were ground down, and the cam lobes re-machined to the previous spec. They still have a few deep scores, but as long as they aren't raised, they just fill with oil and from what he and the machinist said is perfectly fine. Performance loss = negligible, and my car, engine and money saved, mostly.

That was last winter. I drove my car that entire summer, racking up a few thousand miles, and it ran AWESOME. Lots of power, no problems at all. I did run into a few issues with the OPRV valve, and posted the images. Pieces of metal, presumably from my lifter and/or head jammed the valve. TWICE. Obviously not good. My options when the failure happened were remove the engine and rebuild COMPLETELY, or act under the advise of my mechanic, patch it up and hope the oil filter does a damn good job. The first option was not in the budget, so I had to take my chances. I know its not the "right" thing to do but the budget isn't bottomless.

Now, I just finished university, will be working in the fam business, so should have some income. I also purchased a honda as a secondary car that got me through school in the winter. Honda drives great, but have been thinking about the Porsche.

What I am thinking, is now that I have another car to drive, more time, potential income, and less commuting, now might be a good time to finally pull the motor. I can change the bearings, change the seals, clean out the metal that has contaminated the oil, and replace anything that having the engine out gives me easy access to, including the clutch.

I can't decide whether I should pull the motor now, or drive and enjoy the car for a couple months in the nice weather, and pull it mid summer to have some ample good weather time to work on the motor. If the winter next year is anything like this past, it might be too cold to get some serious work done in the winter. Or, should I not even turn the key again until I have everything inside cleaned up because I'm doing far more harm then good!

Cost wise, what am I looking at, minus the clutch, to do the recommended maintenance with the motor out?

Rod bearings. Main bearing. Piston rings? Seals? Maybe my oil pump if it is scored up from the metal?

[CHICKS]

I would cut open the oil filter first and check the amount of metal.

[ditch68]

As the saying goes, "Pay me now or pay me later." In this case, additional damage could add "interest" to the bill.

Working in nice weather actually is enjoyable compared to a cold shop and cold parts and tools! (Unless your shop is nice and heated).

But its your call.

Jeff

[guru944]

JD159:

Brother, I would drop the oil pan 1st, pull the head then see what is going on... Take the time to go through it. Leave no rock unturned. Get it right and running like never before...

Don't pull the motor unless you have no other option.

Later.

[JD159]

Thanks for the input. Like I said, its been running great since I put the head back on and everything back together. Its not a matter of knowing what is in there, I do know what is in there. Metal. I don't see a real purpose in pulling the head, as it was just pulled when it went out for disassembly and cleaning, as well as the cams.

I feel the head is okay. The scoring happened when the lifter ruptured and material circulated within the head. The oil filter is trapping particles that will enter the head, so I am not worried about metal entering the head. I cannot see how if the oil filter is functioning properly, which it likely is as it is a Mahle filter, the head is getting damaged. If the filter is doing its job the head should be fine.

With that being said, most of the pieces are probably in the bottom end doing some work down there. If I'm going to drop the pan, I'd rather remove the engine completely. I don't have a hoist, and I'd rather just pull the engine out the top, put it on a stand, and work on it in the comfort of a chair.

As per Living with a Porsche 944: Engine out the top - Easy Peasy
He did it pretty easy, much easier then lying on my back trying to align the pan and all that junk. I could do a more thorough and complete job with the engine out. I'd probably leave the head on, maybe remove the cams and learn how to dial them in myself with some dial gauges, because it would be a good opportunity to learn.

I also need to change the clutch, and it can be done with the engine out. I can kill two birds with one rather large expensive stone.At least, that was my line of thinking.

[flash968]

i would buy a second motor, and set up that one. while that is being done, you can drive the car as is. then, you can pull the old one and swap it in a weekend. no real down time. then, you could sell the first motor and recover some of the expense.

[JD159]

Flash. Not in the budget. And the amount of money that went into the head and cam regrind could never be recouped from buying a new motor. I'd be buying a motor with far less power, and selling mine for far less then what I paid. Loss and Loss.

Like I said, its currently running and running great. The head and cams perform without a problem, despite a few scores. The small scores have been polished out, while the large ones fill with oil and have little impact on the car. As for down time. I have a commuter. I'd be losing out on the enjoyment of some summer driving

Also. This summer I've been preparing for the S2 manifold swap, as well as getting the injectors cleaned. So all those things would be coming off anyway, as well as vacuum lines. Getting me closer to what removing the engine requires.

[RedBaron]

If you can arrange shipping and pay for crating, this may be the engine for you.

[JD159]

That would be a nice motor with my head and cams that's for sure. I can rebuild it for less though. I may of not been as specific as I needed to be in the post! By pull the motor, I mean pull, and rebuild, not pull and replace .The motor I have in the car is and will be the motor that goes back into it, just refreshed.

[Slam]

Deferred gratification. You have the Honda to get around in. It may not be the prime summer transport, but it does mean you've got time on your side. If it was me, I'd have that engine out for the refresh. You're planning that anyway, yes? There'll be other summers. The way you describe your engine, there may not be other engines, you know what I mean?

At the very least, as CHICKS said, make a point of cutting the filter open and checking it. Maybe once a month? That's conservative, I know, but who knows what's floating around in that motor.

What does the FSM say about situations like this?

[FLYGEEZER]

Gettin another engine & rebuilding it spare time might be the thing to do. Run yours 'till it sheets itself then R&R the engine.

[TibetanT]

JD:

If you have found metal inside your engine, you DO NOT want to drive this car, period!

You will be into a complete rebuild with this situation, so begin the tear down and mark all the pieces, or bag them up, so they go back where they came from. The engine block will need to be gone through completely to alleviate any metal "shaving" that may be hiding in places. Clean everything, and most importantly re-measure the crankshaft to ensure you are within specifications.

You are correct that you will need all new bearings, seals...everything. That way you don't miss anything. If it were me, I would even examine the head and valve guides for wear as well as, measuring the pistons and cylinders for any wear since you did find metal again after last Summer's driving.

You have already put a lot of time and money into this one, so I am with you on the rebuilding it.

Good luck!

[JD159]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. The overall consensus is dive into this motor ASAP. Which is what I think I am going to do.

Like I said, last winter, before I drove it in the summer, I had the head/cams ground and polished to alleviate most if not all of the high spots and anything in the journals that will damage the cams or head again. In this process, the head was disassembled, inspected, including all guides, and cleaned. With that being said, when I do this rebuild, the head WILL STAY ON THE ENGINE.

I am not going to take the head or cams out, because it has already been gone through thoroughly. I do not think metal will travel through the filter and enter the head, which is why I am not going to remove it. This is more of an entire bottom end rebuild, because the head has already been done.

Before compiling a list of what I will be needing, will this remove most of metal shavings? Obviously to be 100% safe I would need to rip EVERYTHING apart and have it sent to some sort of bath. But this is not going to happen.

I want to disassemble the bottom end, clean it as good as possible myself, change seals, bearings, any wearable item, inspect the crank, and hope I got 99% of the metal. That 1% that may be hiding somewhere unless I send it off completely disassembled for a soak, is what I'll live with.

Thoughts?

Also, I would like to remove the cams, and use dial gauges to dial them in. I've never done it, find it really interesting, and have always paid my shop to do it. I REALLY want to learn how, but have never found a guide on how to do it.

A little off topic, but regarding the dial gauges, from what I understand one goes down through the spark plug hole to find true TDC, the other measures how far the lifter travels to a certain point, which indicates correct cam timing relative to TDC.

Lastly, this engine will be coming out through the top, as I have access to an engine hoist attached to a beam in a garage, all properly installed of course. Since I was planning to take off the manifold and all that, I would already be a few steps away from taking it out the top, which is why I am going that route. From there, the engine will go onto a stand for rebuilding at my own pace.

[TibetanT]

JD:

It is much easier to take the engine out via bottom, and you will have better luck with alignment to bell housing when you put it back.

Just my .02 cents. Good luck