BAD oil leak, and other probs.

[RageLtMan]

I got my 924s three weeks ago tomorrow, and it's having umm... issues. i got the oil changed at the begining of the week, and now i'm down to 1/3 of the dipstick. To top it off, my power steering assembly's leaking so i'm burning ATF and scaring people off the road (there's more smoke than ground zero had).

I think i've got a decent approach to tracking downt he PS leak, by just jacking up the car (tomorrow) and turning it on, unpluggin the central fan before doing this so it doesn't splatter all over, and finding the leak. I pray that it's a hose.

As for the oil, well... that gets more interesting. The manual that came with the car says tha upon every oil change, i'm supposed to have the oil plug replaced as well (plug, or seal, i dont remember should be seal, but even those don't need replacing THAT often). Since i needed an oil change fast, i took it to jiffy lube and they seem to have botched the job... I dont know if the its the seal/plug but i need to know the layout of the engine so i could check. I've also got a leak at the top of the main block that's coming out from under a bolt - being less of a car person than most people here, i'm not sure how bad it is, but i assume any pressure leak at the block is a bad thing and i'm bracing myself to watch that bolt blast through my hood next time i start the car.

The thing with the oil leak though is that i have two at least, as this one is not nearly massive enough to drain that much oil (this thing takes 6+ quarts of oil, i still can't believe that a 4 cyl needs that much). There's oil coming down my exhaust, leaking down the thing 'till it hits the cat converter at which point it drips. Far as i can tell, that started today, which means i'm dropping huge amounts of oil to have lost so much. I haven't a prayer of finding this leak or fixing it myself, but i have some good mechanic buddies around. However, like me, they don't know porsche too well. So we're trying to get any hints, info, anything on what we should look for with this mess. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

[SoCal Driver]

The "central fan(s)" have to come on when the engine is hot and run till the engine cools down or you are going to have bigger issues than a few leaks. Blown head gasket comes to mind.

Speaking of over heating this is one reason the engine holds five plus quarts and has a deeply ribbed oil pan -- cooling!

You could just disconnect the belt to the power assisted steering and drain the fluid. Same gear ratios as the early 944's that don't have power assisted steering.

The washer around the oil plug. You can get away with the used one as long as it's not nicked or bent.

As far as I know there are no intentional penetrations of the high pressure oil galleys by external bolts. Maybe one of the tapped holes has cracked through. Most likely this is a seal leak because the bolt is loose.

Did you have a pre purchase inspection of this car?

[RageLtMan]

The oil pan we've noticed, and all think is rather cool for having a heat sink .

As for turning off the cooing fan i'm talking about 5 minutes of run time, not like a half hour session - in 5 minutes it'll dump enough ATF for a blind quadropolegic chipmunk to find... Is that still safe?

Also, is my power steering shared with the 944 or do i have a 924 one? the 924s seems to be a strange conglomerate of 944 and 924.

As for the bolt, is it safe enough to simply re-tighten it? Would that seal the leak?

[SoCal Driver]

Yeap. Five minutes of not running the fans when you should be ought to just about blow the head gasket.

You have about ten minutes or more when the engine is cold before the fans come on. Should be enough time to find a gusher of a leak (most likely on the pressure or infeed side of the system).

Same parts for all the 944, 951, 924S and 968. Possibly even for some of the other product lines too not even including the Audi's or VW's that may have the same rack and pinion.

Could tighten the bolt(s).

Porsche torq settings... bolts... bolts...Oh yea; Tighten till they strip and back off a half turn. NOT! Need to know which ones or just the size socket that fits the head to give you torq settings.

May not seal the leaks but should really slow them down.

[RageLtMan]

Hmm, would anyone happen to have diagrams of all these wonderfully break-prone parts?

matter of fact, is there any place online with good technical reference manuals or what not that we could use in fixing the beast?

[SoCal Driver]

Actually there is a bit of good stuff right here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/944tech_articles.htm

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/944tech_specs.htm

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/electrical/944_electrical_diagrams.htm

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/944_parts/944_83-85.htm


I would also search the internet for "944 porsche".

Also get your hands on the factory manuals and buy the Haynes book.

[todwic]

How's it goin', LT? Do you have a ditial camera to take a pic and post it? That would be a great help in any advice we could give you. Firstly, buy a Haynes manual. They're about $16, and for all of thier...well intended mistakes, it's an invaluable trainer manual. You've already gotten on So cal's good side, so I bet it wouldn't take much more than a little box with prepaid postage and a couple blank C.D.s to get him to burn the fact. manual for you. (I hear he really likes chardeney). If it leakes tighten it. If it still leaks put an "O"ring on it. if it still leaks, add more oil.

[RageLtMan]

I'll have pics soon, so that might be of use. BTW, todwic, did you ever frequent the rage3d forums, or am i thinking of someone else?


I've also got another question, one my mechanic and i developed yesterday. In the front of my engine, right by the fans, is a white plastic nozzle, like the ones that the fans use. However there's no hose on it.


UPDATE: i just got back from j-lube, i took a look at my bill and they said on it that they never added power steering fluid, but that they did add windshield washer fluid (which is BLUE like the stuff i had in mypower steering reserve). It's my understanding that a mistake of that magnitude should have them all hanging from the nearest tree by their left nuts... also, how much dammage could they have done, and how much should i run them for considering that they botched the job so badly?

[todwic]

Someone else

Run with it as far and as fast as you can. The damage water in your ps system...you'll prolly have to get a whole new system out of em. Not just water, but water and detergent. IMO it's coated your lines, ruiined your pump, everything.

[RageLtMan]

It's worse.

We got the car up, finally, on a floor lift we "borrowed" at my friends shop. Well, i'm screwed. There's oil EVERYWHERE, except the oil filter that is (my buddy found it at pep boys, we brought our own to the oil change as we didn't trust them). Looks like either A: my block CRACKED for no reason the day after they messed with it (this would explain why the car is not responsive at all anymore, the gas pedal lags for a sec after you shift to any gear), or B: they put in the wrong oil, like i told them not to do, and it ate away a seal in the back somewhere where i can't see it from over or under the car. However, my block's spewing oil like there's no tomorrow, i mean the leak is huge, we're talking like 1fl/oz per 5 minutes. *Sigh* j-lube's screwed, they messed my car up and repairs are a costly thing on a porsche.

[todwic]

Very costly.

Take a gander at my P.M. List , that is by no means complete. Is it Driver side or P.S.? If Pass. Side, it's most probably the seal on you oil cooler, they go out from time to time, but since JL diddled with it, there's really no telling what they frigged up under there. (I imagine hearing "hey man, what's this thingy? look, it twists!" comming out from under the car)

[Scott R]

Don't freak out. You’re not the first to have this problem. When I towed my 87 home it left a Valdez size slick in my garage. You could not make out anything on the bottom it was so covered in oil.

Here is what to do:

First off oil flows with the air movement and gravity of the car, so it looks like it’s all over everything, but its usually one or two bad leaks causing the whole thing.

Get it to a power wash and spray it down with simple green and then power wash it. Drive it around a bit and then take it back to your buddies shop and rack it again.

Check for leaks on the front of the oil pan, and leaks that look like they are coming down on top of the power steering rack, or coating the power steering rack. These usually indicate that one or more of the front seals have gone bad. These would be either and upper or lower balance shaft seal, or a cam seal, or front main. Don't worry these are easy to replace, they just take time.

Now move back to the where the dipstick fits into the lower block, see if this leaking from the point where it inserts into the block, this is a cheap o-ring that leaks and causes a hell of a mess.

Now let’s move over to the passenger side and take a look at the oil filter adapter area. Attached to the oil filter adapter is the oil sending unit, it has two wires coming out of it, and is kind of round. There is a copper washer between the sender and the oil filter housing that leaks. This is a cheap part to replace.

Next, get rid of that "Jiffy Lube" generic oil filter and cruise over to the dealer and get a real Mahle OEM filter, while your at it ask them for the oil drain plug washer, it's like $.20. Sometimes these lube hack shops install the incorrect filter and it leaks.

These are the places that can easily develop major leaks, obviously you can have a leaking rear main, but I have had three 944's now and have never had a rear main that leaked bad enough to cause the leaks that you’re describing.

On the power steering issue, just drain then thing out by removing the lower line, fill it once with ATF then drain it again and refill with ATF. It should be fine. I have seen several shops put weird stuff in the power steering system, washer fluid, and Honduh power steering fluid. You should be fine.

And like Todwic said you should get access to a digital camera so that the gurus on this board can help out. I took a basket case like yours and fixed it up, last summer it won its first concurs award, and all of the tech help I needed was right here on this board.

[todwic]

Nicely done, scott.