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VEMS plug and play system for 968

Completed a VEMS Plug and Play solution for Porsche 968 with additional coil-on-plug, MAT (968 does not have dedicated air temp sensor) and WBO2 harness. Utilises all stock sensors (including controlling VarioCam) and allows to ditch expensive MAF. If anyone is interested, it costs 950 euros (without cop harness) and it comes with a map for stock car.


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Old 02-01-2015, 12:56 AM
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i always like seeing new stuff for the 968. however, i don't get the advantage. what is this supposed to do for us that is better than stock?

is this supposed to replace the ECU? if so, there are over 100 maps in the stock ECU, at least 20 of which i had to tune for my supercharger kit. how many did you put in there?

has this been tested for emissions?

is it tunable?

p.s. - if it's to replace the MAF, the MAF is less expensive than this
Old 02-01-2015, 06:11 AM
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It is a full standalone engine management system, meaning it can be tuned to whatever configuration you want.
Its purpose is to increase power, even from stock engine you can get more power, though not more than ~10% on a healthy engine.

It is MUCH easier to tune than any method with original DME and it has integrated wbo2 controller, just connect a sensor. Does original ECU has dual WBo2 and dual EGT controller on board? No.

Why would you need different maps? Only reason I could think of is if you use E85 for example occasionally and you need to switch maps. VEMS can store two maps and supports flexfuel sensor too.
For different engine mods you can tune thousands of maps in your computer and upload them in a minute.

It can be tuned using its autotune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fyfhY_FhI

If your car has original cats it will pass the emission test with flying colours given that you have tuned the fuel to match your engine configuration. It has closed loop WBo2 control which can be configured any way you want or disabled.

You can download VEMSTune software from here and browse through features etc: Vems.hu - VemsTune main site
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Old 02-01-2015, 08:59 AM
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I'm dragging my feet at the process of going stand alone via megasquirt due to the sensor and harness swaps on an original intact 87s. Any plans on offering this for the 16v's out there?
Old 02-01-2015, 10:12 AM
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Yes, I offer same solution to 944 S and S2 also, only difference is the pinout of the DME connector, that's all.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:39 AM
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Here's video of how well 944 S2 runs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSwr40pDAt0

And dyno figures of the same car, 207rwhp/275rwNm:


I made a product page in Facebook, check out the possible plug and play VEMS ECU's for different Porsches:

http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche/


I have also made many complete harnesses for older 911's which do not have EFI, including twin-plug COP setups and 964/993 P'n'P ECU's with additional COP harness:





Here's TPS kit and AFM delete kit:

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Old 11-20-2015, 04:16 AM
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interesting, albeit pricey. 950 euros is $1300. there are chips out there that make 15hp and decent torque gains, that go for less than $200. as somebody who has been deeply involved in designing, building and marketing things to the 968 crowd, without charts, i think it is going to be hard for the 968 group to justify.

regarding passing emissions, in 37 states (and i think 4 more are being added jan 1), it will not pass if you have deleted the MAF

but, if somebody was messing around with E85, this might be a better way through it. i really haven't looked into it that much, so i can't speak to the requirement of retention of all fuel and emissions control devices when using alternate fuels.

good luck

Last edited by flash968; 11-20-2015 at 09:31 AM..
Old 11-20-2015, 08:28 AM
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This ECU will alow you to use ANY further modification you would ever want in the future (turbo, wasted spark or COP ignition, nitrous, supercharger, whatever) without having to worry about getting other chips or something.
Remember, this is full standalone ECU, not even comparable to chips. And so far none of the chipmakers has managed to present similar result, if you know a direct dyno shart with shown whp, I would gladly see. Claims are not worth a dime, sorry.

Clearly you do not have too much experience with standalone ECU's, usual price range for going standalone ECU is ~2-3 times more.

Also it will easily pass the smog test, you can replace MAF with hollowed out unit (so that it will pass visual test) and no one will tell the difference (it passes emission test with flying colours).
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Old 11-20-2015, 10:36 AM
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there are plenty of charts out there. in fact, i did a chip shootout test a number of years ago, and tested quite a few chips. at this point i think i've done about 200 runs testing various chips. i published charts on most of them. results ranged from 7 to 15hp.

actually, i have quite a bit of experience with standalones, and i am not denying the advantages. clearly they are more capable of change. for the one-off guy, who likes to continually tweak things, they make sense. for the average guy, who just wants to add more power, quickly and easily, they don't. after dealing with the 968 market for 11 years now, i can tell you for certain that it is a very small market, and most of the guys want inexpensive simple things.

passing the tailpipe test is irrelevant. you cannot LEGALLY remove or modify the MAF, whether some buddy got away with it or not. also, in the case of the 968, unless you have written code to circumvent triggering the check engine light, which is a first step in a smog test, it will not pass. this is something i had to deal with when i developed the CARB certified supercharger kit. they carefully inspected everything on the car. during the certification process, they even drained the tank and used their own fuel, to ensure there was no cheating. the laws are VERY strict, and they are being adopted state by state, all across the union, as the population increases, air quality decreases, and they fail the EPA testing, which then mandates they incorporate the same testing as california.

the 968 is a very different animal than the 944. what might work on the 944 very often does not on the 968, even though they share a lot of things. for example, there are well over 100 maps in the 968 ECU. i had to tune over 20 of them to make the car run right. it's even tuned differently for different countries.

all that aside, for a few hundred bucks now, you can buy the interface and burner, and get the tuning software, and do this yourself, without having to change anything. the map module is out there too. it's really a matter of time, more than cost. even with a standalone, you'll still need to get an A/F meter and a knock counter, in order to tune things. suddenly you're up to $2k. the market for that cost is small. i contemplated offering a normally aspirated tuning package that would add 30hp and 15 lb/ft for about $2k. i had a total of 10 bites. if you delivered it complete with a tune, you'd stand a much better chance.

all that being said, a standalone would likely have made my process a lot easier, if i could have found a way to use it legally. certainly tuning the chips was no picnic. unfortunately, here in california, and now many other states, they are not legal on gasoline powered cars.

still, they might be ok for an E85 application. somebody else is going to have to look into that one.

again, best of luck
Old 11-20-2015, 12:01 PM
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I have sold several 968 systems, all of them work well. Sorry, my mistake, they work perfectly
And my ECU controls check engine light also, no problems. You can leave original MAF intact no problem, you can hollow it out, no problem. When hollowed out, will they remove it and check if the grille and wire are still there? I don't think so. VEMS has closed-loop WBo2 control it can adapt to different fuels etc without issues and the idle and higher rpm tailpipe test is easy as pie. And with it being plug and play unit, it is very easy to just swap DME back in if so worried about someone removing the carpet and checking if you have original ECU. Standalones are not legal in many countries, does that mean you should not buy them if you pass smog test? It's up to the buyer but please don't compare standalone one to one with chips, they are totally different animals and offer different things.

968 is nothing special, usual Motronic car. Only lacks dedicated air temp sensor and that is covered also with my kit.

You don't need a knock counter with VEMS!!! VEMS uses original knock sensor and has integrated WBo2 controller! Please read carefully what I have written before!

And I have a very well working tune, didn't I mentione that already?

But purchasing and owning a standalone engine management system is not a human right and it is not mandatory so to each their own. Peace!
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Last edited by Raceboy; 11-20-2015 at 12:49 PM..
Old 11-20-2015, 12:31 PM
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$1300 is cheap as chips for a standalone. There is not even comparison to Motronic, regardless of chips.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:49 PM
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so, the check engine light still works, right? i'm not talking about the exclamation point, but rather the actual check engine light, which is connected to the on board diagnostic system. they check that to make sure it is functional. are you saying that you have written code or something to bypass the MAF check step and trick the tech into thinking there is one still there? technically that is called fraud, and here it is a felony. here in california, if they find you have something like that, they can impound your car, fine you, or even jail you

how many of the maps does your system give access to? as i said, there are at least 20 of the 100+ in the system that are required for the 968 to run correctly, and that varies from country to country. i've seen standalones that only had a handful of maps in the module. they didn't work at all.

actually, the 968 is unique. between the variocam, the dual resonant intake, the tuned header, and the precious metal cat, none of which are on the 944, tuning is tricky. anybody can create something that starts and runs, but to get it tuned to adequately maintain 14.7 across load and weather conditions is a lot of work.

as for a knock counter, i don't know what provisions your system has, but the OEM system only retards timing a maximum of 6 degrees. it would be very easy to overtune and exceed that, without a knock counter to tell you what is going on. this is particularly critical in mid range part throttle tuning.

yes, you said you had a map for a stock car. i presume by that, you mean that you have a clone of the 100+ maps used in the stock car. that is not what i was suggesting. i was suggesting that you would stand a better chance of selling them if they included a performance tune already, and provided charts showing that you made more power than the best chip already out there. most of the guys don't want to tune that much, and would be served by a starting point.

your market is obviously track guys. they are really the only ones who could truly benefit by this kind of thing. i've learned that one over the years, in developing the largest and most successful performance product line in the world for the 968.

again though, best of luck. there is always room for something else.

Last edited by flash968; 11-20-2015 at 01:05 PM..
Old 11-20-2015, 01:01 PM
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With the right tune and correct sensor calibration you only need one map to run a car well. The 968 doesn't have a temp sensor which is probably a factor in why it has that many maps. An engine is just an engine, the 968 lump is special but not that special. You can tune with respect to intake/exhaust flow, it's reflected directly in the VE table.

You also can see real time sensor readouts and data log, check engine light is worthless. I don't have VEMS but I can tell you that since going standalone (megasquirt in my case) the car becomes WAY more usable to enthusiasts like you or me.
Old 11-20-2015, 01:21 PM
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Gee, you don't need 100+ maps, how did you even come up with that kind of number???

If you have different ECU, there is NO MAF CHECK TO BYPASS!! And no, noone will put you into jail for that. Of course, the are people who can get into jailf for anything if they act accordingly, can't argue with that.

Please do not troll this thread anymore, clearly you don't have any idea about standalones and idolize 968 engine as such. IT IS NOTHING SPECIAL lol In fact, 968 engine is tuned quite poorly for its port size and engine potential to be honest.

I can tune the knock interface however I like, and trust me, I have tuned quite a few 944/968 16v engines, both turbochagred and normally aspirated. Here's my 924 2.5 16v Turbo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPbABZsVVU

This my street driven car, almost a daily driver in a snow-free months...
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:43 PM
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actually, the 968 uses 2 temp sensors in its tuning. it just doesn't use an air temp sensor per se, though it does require the MAF wire to be up to temp before it switches maps

there is absolutely a MAF check, in fact, there are 4 different checks the ECU goes through that are connected to the MAF, hence the 4 different error codes that can pop up on it.

i came up with that number by looking at the code. if you don't know that, it points clearly to a complete lack of understanding. there are over a dozen part throttle maps alone, each for a different set of conditions.

i too have tuned a number of 968s, both normally aspirated and supercharged. heck, i have over 50 supercharged cars out there now. i know exactly what is there. that's why i am the only one to ever acquire a CARB certification for anything for this car.

actually, i don't like the 968 engine at all. i found it to be weak, lumpy, and lacking. that's why i worked so hard on tuning it, and then supercharging it. i merely took the required steps to make sure that it was transparent in operation, and legal everywhere.

once again, i am only suggesting that you are asking people to spend a LOT of money for what may not give them any more than they can get for a lot less, with a lot less effort. show us some direct comparison charts, stock tune versus your tune, no other modifications, or at least the same modifications on both tests, so that we can see for ourselves how well it does. there are plenty of charts out there for the other stuff on the market. then people can compare and decide for themselves. but you can't just pop on, use this space for free advertising, and say "hey, i have this pricey gadget i can sell you for your car, but i'm not showing you any proof that it works" and not expect somebody to ask for more information.
Old 11-20-2015, 03:41 PM
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Please, stop trolling this thread, ok? I am offering a full standalone ECU for fraction of the price that these things used to sell and if you even remotely knew anything about standalones, you would not be asking half the questions you have asked. Do you understand that IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY CHECKS DME DOES for MAF because there is no DME at all anymore! Using my standalone does not trigger CEL light, nor due to the MAF neither missing DME. Gee, you claim to make so many setups yet you struggle to understand that if there is no cause, there is no symptom...

I should have figured out your agenda from the first post you made judging by your nickname, yet I did not suspect anything. Clearly you are just trying to protect what you think is your niche by bashing the standalone ECU..
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Old 11-20-2015, 04:53 PM
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I would think that someone with a background in supercharging would at least see the advantage of standalone.

Does the 968 have a potentiometer TPS (just out of curiosity, I couldn't find anything objective with a quick google search). If not, adding one (which I can see in Raceboy's pictures) makes it easier to tune the car. Acceleration enrichment etc etc. No map switching required, that's crazy when the car is tuned correctly.

I'm not trying to be a dick and respect your achievements, but like I said, Motronic isn't even in the same league, and any real standalone replaces that, including the Motronic hardware checks.
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:30 PM
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Yes, 968 already has potentiometer TPS from the factory. TPS kit pictured in this thread is for S2 (and also S, regular 944, 911 3.2, 964). 944 Turbo has 6pin TPS of which one is simple idle/WOT swicth and other is potentiometer (for KLR). 944 Turbo also does not need a TPS change.
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:51 PM
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it does matter how many checks it does, because if your system doesn't do the same thing when you turn the key, then i will FAIL the test. the light must come on, and then go off, at the right time.

i am not bashing the system. i am merely saying that if you plan for anybody to buy it, especially at that price, you need to show that the results are better than what is already out there. the motronic is actually fairly easy to tune, and at a lot less cost to that average user. in order for any sane person to spend that kind of money, you have to show them that it is better.

the 968 does have a TPS. it also takes information from the O2 sensor, 2 temps sensors, the tach, and the MAF. it calculates load based on the signals it receives, and adjusts timing and fuel across over 100 maps, based on those.

i'm not suggesting that the motronic is a superior computer. it's pretty primitive, with sampling rates that are painfully slow in today's technology. i'm merely saying that it is not horrible. it's a whole lot better than the springs, weights, and jets i used to tune with 30 years ago when i started in this.

if anybody was trying to convince somebody to spend $1300 they had better be able to show that it is significantly better than what can be done for less than half that. so far, i have seen no evidence of it working any better than what we already have. with a proper cold air intake, and a chip, we have hundreds of cars out there making 10% more power than stock, for about $300. to justify the extra grand, i would think any rational person would expect to see a whole lot more. that's exactly why i abandoned my normally aspirated project. i was only going to be able to make about 35hp over stock, and that was not enough to justify the cost.

for somebody with a track car, a turbo, or something like that, i can see where every little bit would help. heck, it would probably help me with my kit to get a bit more. however, for a street car, the margin would likely be so small that it would not justify the cost, even to me, and i have spent over $150k modifying my car. if i won't spend it, how would anybody expect anyone else to?

let's do a little quick math. $1300 for this system, another few hundred for an A/F meter so you can tune it, another $100 for a knock counter so you know if you are banging on that or not, and then how much time on the dyno? i can easily see wrapping $3k up in this. how much more power do i get over stock? how much more would i spend to get the over 300hp and 300 lb/ft of a fully tuned CARB certified supercharger kit? i think the same people that can't find their way to buy the supercharger kit are going to have the same problems with this, for the same reasons.

my entire point here is to provide marketing advice, and it comes from being the biggest proponent of 968 performance parts. take it or leave it, but based on the responses here, i know how i will be advising the largest and most active group of 968 owners on the planet.

best of luck.
Old 11-21-2015, 02:37 PM
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I'm interested. I've already msg'ed you on your FB page Raceboy, thanks for your reply.

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Old 11-21-2015, 03:35 PM
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