Balance shaft case sealant? loctite or threebond

[AA_Ezra]

Doing a little reading on the 911 forum about case sealants. I ask because 6 months to a year ago i Did my balance shaft covers and used loctite 574 wich is recomended and left it alone for a few days ( i did apply it in cold weather). And now i have a puddle an oil leak and suspect the loctite 574 was old or i goofed up. Used on a volvo and it's been great so far.


Is anyone else using something different? any sucess.

I heard the 911 guys are using a Threebond products
Others a "new" loctite product

I know pelican sells the loctite 574 but how do we know how fresh it is and what kind of shelf life does it have( giving loctite a call if i have time).

The threebond stuff is available at most motorsport ships (convenient)

[AA_Ezra]

Anyone try a different product?

[HondaDustR]

I've heard good stuff about Yamabond as well. I used 574 with no problems at all so far, but you have to wipe the parts really good with acetone to prep the surface, and be particularly sure to get it on evenly, thick enough, into all the crevices, and around the bolt holes.

[AA_Ezra]

Originally Posted by HondaDustR

I've heard good stuff about Yamabond as well. I used 574 with no problems at all so far, but you have to wipe the parts really good with acetone to prep the surface, and be particularly sure to get it on evenly, thick enough, into all the crevices, and around the bolt holes.

Yeah, i don't remember if i did it by hand or with a roller to be honest. The sealant that did squese out was even and looked like it came out only slightly more then factory. I'm taking the car apart again I just wish there was an easier way to tell were the oil leak was coming from. The oil is fresh and was accumulating Under the intake manifold just above the top ballance shaft casing.


How long did you let ti set before using the car?

I think i made the mistake of doing it in cold weather outside

[HondaDustR]

I just used a foam tip art brush when I put my motor back together. A clean finger will work in a pinch. The 574 cures only in the presence of metal and the abscense of air. I'm not sure how much cold temps affect it. It may not do very well if it's very cold, like below freezing. I know I have seen on the datasheet that it takes 12 hours to reach maximum strength. It begins curing against the metal surface as soon as it is applied, so it must be assembled within minutes of application. If you have oil in that top valley, it's most likely from the balance shaft housing. Luckily, the upper one is 10x easier to redo than the lower one. The factory manual says that old sealant left on the surfaces is not a problem, since the fresh stuff supposedly redissolves it, but I cleaned off any significant deposits before assembly anyway. Not sure about 574, but other anaerobic flange sealants such as 514 specified an optional activator that sped up curing and increased strength and gap filling. I looked it up in the MSDS's I could find and it looked like pretty much acetone. Cleanliness is very important for flange sealants.

Since I used it when assembling my motor, it had a couple days to cure. When installing the oil pump, I had to dismantle it about 30 minutes after sealing it to correct something and the sealant had already cured to a solid, but was not very hard. I scraped it all off and started over again. Motor is still dry as a bone.

[Techno Duck]

I have used the roller method before but i prefer to just apply it with my finger. Just tap your finger across the area to spread the sealant out evenly.. same effect as using the roller i think.

Just resealed my lower cover.. no leaks so far.

[AA_Ezra]

Originally Posted by HondaDustR

I just used a foam tip art brush when I put my motor back together. A clean finger will work in a pinch. The 574 cures only in the presence of metal and the abscense of air. I'm not sure how much cold temps affect it. It may not do very well if it's very cold, like below freezing. I know I have seen on the datasheet that it takes 12 hours to reach maximum strength. It begins curing against the metal surface as soon as it is applied, so it must be assembled within minutes of application. If you have oil in that top valley, it's most likely from the balance shaft housing. Luckily, the upper one is 10x easier to redo than the lower one. The factory manual says that old sealant left on the surfaces is not a problem, since the fresh stuff supposedly redissolves it, but I cleaned off any significant deposits before assembly anyway. Not sure about 574, but other anaerobic flange sealants such as 514 specified an optional activator that sped up curing and increased strength and gap filling. I looked it up in the MSDS's I could find and it looked like pretty much acetone. Cleanliness is very important for flange sealants.

Since I used it when assembling my motor, it had a couple days to cure. When installing the oil pump, I had to dismantle it about 30 minutes after sealing it to correct something and the sealant had already cured to a solid, but was not very hard. I scraped it all off and started over again. Motor is still dry as a bone.

Yeah 514 came up once in a while but the consensus was that it was not as good.



Thanks for confirming that the oil in the galley above the camshaft case most likely came from the camshaft seal itself. it was cold ouside when i applied it but, not cold for me really but it was about 40's or so. cold enough that glass and cold metal was attracting condensation.... and i just realized that's maybe what did it some moisture must have gotten on the sealant EUREKA!


The top balance shaft case was easy that's why i was disapointed about it leaking. If anything i thought the bottom one would give me problems as it was a pain in the butt to do at night with low light. I was hoping there was oil on the bottom from my bad Oil pressure sender, but probly not

Thanks

And now evidently Loctite 5208 is the replacement of loctite574 but 5208 is flexible so don't know how that would work

[HondaDustR]

Flexible is not a bad thing, since heat expansion is one of the big enemies to successful gasketing. Stuff like Yamabond is used on crankase halves and it is a silastic sealant. Permatex right stuff you can find at parts stores is very similar.

[AA_Ezra]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

I have used the roller method before but i prefer to just apply it with my finger. Just tap your finger across the area to spread the sealant out evenly.. same effect as using the roller i think.

Just resealed my lower cover.. no leaks so far.

That is so funny. I Used that same method on one of the balance shaft covers after i dropped it and the roller.

I just put a line of sealant along the whole casing then tapping around as you did until it all looked and even color to insure the sealant was spread evenly.

I know the method works as i did the same to the valve cover on my brothers Volvo 850 R Turbo with the same sealant loctite 574 and it has zero leaks. My balance shafts on the other hand are a different story. I blame it on the Cold foggy/misty weather the night i did it in my driveway.

[Techno Duck]

Temperature definitely was a factor i bet. If you look up the MSDS data sheet on 574 it will give some examples of cure time vs temperature. On steel it says it can take up to 72 hours to 100% cure in colder temps, not sure what the difference is on aluminum but i am sure its not much. My car sat about a week or so after i put the cover back on in a relatively warm garage.

That cover is a pain in the butt anyhow, especially the later type like i have with the integrated bearing cap. Keeping that balance shaft in place with assembly lube on the bearings, 574 on the flanges and the rear o-ring plug on while upside down is definitely a two person job.

I actually just dealt with this on the turbo feed line fitting. I had alot of issues getting this to stop leaking, so i eventually put on Loctite high temp thread sealant. I let it cure overnight but it was probably around 20*F out during that time. I had a small amount of oil leaking past the threads for the past 2 years almost. I fixed it last week using the same thread sealant which had about 3-4 days to cure while i put the car back together.. no more leaks. So i learned my lesson to not be in such a rush now!

[Rasta Monsta]

Dredging up an old thread.

First, am I crazy not to reseal the BS covers while I have the engine out and on a stand? The left one is a bit juicy in the area of the rear o-ring, but both the turbo drain vent and AOS were leaking.

Second, are there any more opinions about alternative sealants?

[kdjones2000]

574 has worked well for me on the several NA engines I have done.

Don't fix what ain't broke is my motto.

[Skeletor]

Rasta, the lower cover is such a pain to do with the motor in and manifold in the way that you should do it now. If nothing else you'll seal up the plug on the backside, which dries out and drips almost every time.

[v2rocket_aka944]

I "might" be able to get fresh material of Loctite 574 (thru work), I will see if that's doable tomorrow (in case of conflict of interest reasons or whatever).

[Volhv]

I sealed mine with the 574, but if that wasn't available, I would have gone with Hylomar. That stuff's hard to beat.

[TibetanT]

I have used Loctite 574 exclusively and have had no problems. Make sure you shake the bottle/container good before application.

Cold temperatures do affect the cure time. I wait two (2) days before running my cars after engine builds using Loctite 574. As mentioned above, make sure the surface is very clean meaning both surfaces; the BS cover and the engine case as well as applying to both surfaces that are going to close up.

Good luck with you BS restore.

Hope this helps

[Bradical]

The workshop manual doesnt mention sealing the BS covers...

Edit... I see it on 13-44. Thanks for reviving this thread, Rasta! Probably saved me some time