Question about a 944 I'm looking to buy.

BlueLiner · 11-05-2002, 09:39 PM

Looking to buy an '89 944. My problem is that it has 103,000 miles. The dealer already told me that the clutch is going and will need to be replaced in ~10k miles or so.
Other than that, it is VERY clean with a great stereo in. Should the 103k miles bother me? I've heard bad things happen to these cars after about 110 or so.

Also, he wants $7500. I personally think that is way too much for a plain 944 with a bad clutch. Am I wrong?

One more thing while I'm at it. Can a turbo be added to a plain 944 or is it stuck being NA?

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Stuck being an NA. Nothing wrong with that.

What type of dealer is this?

National sales figures for an 89 944 NA are:

Poor Condition : 5200

Fair Condition : 5900

Excellent Condition : 7900

These are averages. Regional prices will vary.

Cost of clutch parts are over $700 for the 89. This is not skimping on anything. In many cases the only thing that really needs replaced is the disk at about $300.

The 89 is 2.7 liters but an 11:1 compression ratio resulting in 168 HP.

If this is the one you want and it's cherry offer 6900 and settle at 7100. Figure you can get away with just a clutch disk and maybe a throw out bearing.

If it's not cherry offer 5900 and keep looking.

XJOSHX · 11-05-2002, 10:28 PM

X gets a square. I always wanted to say that at the correct time. I fully agree with socal. My last 944 was at 175k when it got hit parked and it was kicking strong and had signs of quiting.

XJOSHX · 11-05-2002, 10:29 PM

no signs of quiting. silly me

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

103k miles isn't alot for a 13 year old car.

Can you give more details besides "it is VERY clean and has a great stereo..." (Who cares about the stereo?!?!)

Stuff like:
-When was the timing belt replaced?
-Were the motor mounts replaced?
-Any accidents?
-Any dashboard cracks?

I think $7500 is a bit high for an n/a.

Just my $0.42
-Zoltan.

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

$7500 is a LOT for a 944 NA with 103,000 miles. I wouldn't personally be put off by the mileage, but the price is high. I paid $3000 for my 83 model, and it had 36,000 on it when I bought it... nothing was wrong with the car (it was nearly perfect cosmetically), $3000 is just a fair going rate for an early 944.

Seriously, you could probably find a decent 944 Turbo for around $8000. Granted, it will have over 100K miles at this price, but so does your prospective NA. Unless this NA is in AMAZING shape, I would keep looking...

And I am going to say what every Pelican Partner (heh) is thinking: if you want a car that will accellerate very quickly, get a 944 Turbo. If you want a reasonably quick car (will not out-accelerate a new sports car off the line) that handles like a go-cart and is amazingly fun on twisty roads, the 944 is fine. You CAN turbocharge a 944NA, but it will end up costing you more in the process than just buying a 944 Turbo! The base 944 is a wonderful car; it has good top-end pull, it is the best-handling car I have ever driven (and that includes 911s, Ferrari 308s, etc), it's good-looking, and buttloads of fun to drive. But if you're going to be drag-racing, better get a 944 Turbo (944 0-60 is 7.4 sec - 8.5 sec depending on which one you get... 0-60 on a 944 Turbo is 5.5- 6 sec). On second thought, if you are going to be drag-racing, don't get a 944. Get a Civic and rice it out or a Mustang 5.0

It seems to me that if you have $7500+ to spend on a 944, you should just take the plunge and buy a 944 Turbo.

That being said, I wish I had $7500 for a 944 Turbo.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

If you're going to be doing drag racing, you're better off getting a Mustang/Vette or Camaro.

The independant rear of the 944 (including the 944 Turbo) doesn't like harsh launches. So unless you have an endless supply of CV joints, don't bother drag racing a 944 turbo.

-Zoltan.

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

Good point, Zoltan.

A mid-80s Camaro is actually a pretty good comprimise, for the are good drag-racers if you work on them, and they handle surprisingly well.

In 1986, on of the car mags (R&T) did a contest to find out the best-handling car in the world. They put the American champ - the Camaro - against the European champ - the 944. The 944 cleaned house, but there has to be something to be said about the Camaro being the best-handling American car of the time.

Dougster · 11-06-2002, 08:44 AM

Some good advice here. I will add that you should RUN away from any DEALER! You don't have any idea of any records with them. You can get a much better car from a private owner, who probally has service history! However, the miles are ok, many a 944 na are cruzing around at over 200k miles! Unless the dealer is going to replace the clutch, timing belt and everything else that needs done...Offer $3500 and RUN if he dosn't take it...

kenny · 11-06-2002, 09:53 AM

Ask him how much his service department charges to replace the clutch -- then subtract it from the asking price (or maybe 75% if you plan on doing it yourself); or, as the clutch is a pretty big job and expensive if you have to pay someone else to do the job use that as leverage. IF the car is in excellent shape, and has the records, offer him what he's asking if he gets the clutch replaced (with a 951-type clutch).

Generally, if the interior and engine compartment are very clean, the interior hardly worn, and the car is running well with a maintenance record, you'll be in pretty good shape. You can always have a PPI done at another dealer or shop. If there is nothing wrong with the car they won't hessitate to do at least that.

Also be aware that banks won't loan that much (they will barely go that high for a turbo!) on the car. This makes it more difficult for the dealer to move the car (your advantage!). Otherwise you'll need some cash money up front.

A $7500 turbo will need work, and you would need extra money in the bank for that on top of the initial purchase price.

Dougster,
Although that is often the case, coupled with the fact you usually pay too much at the dealer, it ain't necessarily so. I bought mine through a dealer who was helping one of their long-time customers sell his to buy a new Audi TT (Porsche Audi dealer). I got every record from when the car was new even though there were two owners (incidently the number of owners it takes to depreciate a new car to the point I can afford it!) -- The Porsche dealer changed hands but kept all the records.

The real dealers to watch out for are the fly-by-night foreign car places that sell every trashed out European mfg'd piece 'o crap that they get at auction!

BlueLiner · 11-06-2002, 11:05 AM

Wow.... Thanks for the great advice guys. The car has all the service records, I just haven't had time to look at them. Got to the dealer last night at 6:20 (already dark) and they closed at 6:30. The interior is spotless with 1 tear in the leather on the driver seat about 2 inches long that has been repaired.
I am normally very wary of buying a car from a dealer, except in this case. It is a highly respected dealer that only deals in Corvettes. He sells some Porsches and BMWs as well (4 Porsches right now including two targas

). He makes much more in the long run by not ripping off his repeat customers. Also, he told told me about the clutch problem and an additional starting problem. So I'm not getting the normal "creepy greedy" used salesman vibe. I will however insist on a PPI from another shop.
As far as my intended use, its going to be a city driver. I have no plans to race it, just to have it as a fun car to drive around a traffic filled Austin in.

Keep ya posted. Again, thanks so much for all the input.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

"Additional starting problem"?????

What???

scottmandue · 11-06-2002, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueLiner

Also, he wants $7500. I personally think that is way too much for a plain 944 with a bad clutch. Am I wrong?

One more thing while I'm at it. Can a turbo be added to a plain 944 or is it stuck being NA?

I don't know but I have been told:
Our 944's have a hydraulic clutch and once they "start to go" they are gone.
A non abused clutch can last up to 80K miles, so this car may have the original.
It takes many hours to do a clutch in this car therefor if you pay someone to do it can be expensive. (probably not a job I would want to tackle)

IMHO If the car had a new clutch it would not be a bad deal (not a great deal either).

And as it has been said it costs too much to turbo a 944, by the time you add up all the parts you have to change.

Good luck

BlueLiner · 11-06-2002, 11:54 AM

Additional starting problem: He told me that on a cold start it starts fine, but after that it takes it a little while to get the engine to turn over. Something about a cellinoid (spell?). I don't know a whole lot about cars but I'm assuming if I were to mention it to the PPI garage, they would be able to give me a pretty detailed explanation as to exactly what is wrong and what it would cost to fix.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Solenoid.

Electromagnet that pulls the starter gear onto the flywheel teeth and busses the battery directly to the starter windings.

This could be as simple as cleaning all of the ground and positive contacts between the battery, chassis, engine and starter.

Or could be brushes in the starter.

Or battery/charging.

Or all of the above.

Begining to sound like there are more issues than he's disclosing or that he may know of.

rben · 11-06-2002, 02:31 PM

Shop around some more. They are asking too much for a car with clutch and starting problems. The miles are not a problem. Be patient, I know thats hard to do when you want a 944 but I think you can find a better car for less money. A clutch job will cost you about $1300,so instead of $7500 you are looking at $8800.
rben

gixer02 · 11-06-2002, 02:51 PM

mine was rebuilt at 150k... i'm over 200k and it runs real strong.... no matter the mileage wuth these cars you have do keep up with the maintainance... good luck

Dougster · 11-06-2002, 03:01 PM

Kenny. Yes, I shouldn't say all the time. I once was helping a friend FIND a 944 Turbo...Found one at a local dealer who always had lots of Porsche's ect. and he looked me in the eye and said Yes, I have all the service history, the timing belts been done...Everything is in order...I passed on the info to my friend...He bought it...THEN found out the Dealer LIED! He had NO service history and could NOT prove of any timing belt service...I felt bad for my friend and the dealer also made me look like a fool...No more...To me the ole saying about dealers is true...If it has lips...It lies! The same could be true of a private owner, just becareful and do get the PPI...

BlueLiner · 11-06-2002, 06:20 PM

This is a second vehicle for me, so I can be very patient in looking for one. I have no plans to pay the dealer 7500 if it has any real problems (ie the clutch, starting issue). I will consider that price if he has everything fixed (including major PPI discoveries) given how nice the car is in all other respects.
After driving it today, the vibration from the clutch going out is very obvious. It will definitaly have to be fixed. On the bright side, he has original owner records current to 8/2001 from the original date of purchase including window sticker.

afx · 11-06-2002, 08:00 PM

Hey, is the dealer you are looking at Corvette Country? I was looking for a 944 about a month ago in the austin area. I just ignored that one from Corvette Country, its seemed a bit too high in price (I did not go look at it).