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-   Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/)
-   -   OK, cam timing,... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/90124-ok-cam-timing.html)

overkill 12-08-2002 10:00 AM

OK, cam timing,...
 
As of right now, I have my cams lined up perfectly with each other. I installed everything onto the end of the camshaft #1. This is what I did,... I put the gear on the end of the cam and then inserted 3 temp bolts and screwed them into place just a bit. Then I screwed in the cam bolt. I then placed the timing belt onto the gear. I then tightend the 3 temp bolts to hold the gear into place then cranked down the cam bolt to 65 - 70nm. My question is,... do cam gears have factory markings on them or are all these marks on my gear made by someone who had dismantled it before? I am pretty sure the my timing is dead on but the marking on the gear dont match with TDC even though the car is in perfect TDC. There are two markings i did notice that do match up. Someone had made 2 little hole marks on the end of the cam and two onthe gear. When I was done setting the time I noticed these marks and that they aligned perfectly. Please let me know asap, I am getting ancy here. I want to start the car up today.

Scott R 12-08-2002 10:06 AM

Overkill due to the time and investment that you have into this project, you should take digital pictures.

Post your cam and timing orientation up here and have it verified by Afjuvat or SoCal.

overkill 12-08-2002 10:08 AM

Ok, will do. Check back, I'll have pictures up in baout 15 minutes.

AFJuvat 12-08-2002 10:11 AM

There is a factory notch on the cam gear that lines up with the hole in the housing - that notch must be visible.

definately upload pictures

AFJuvat

overkill 12-08-2002 10:50 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam0.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam1.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam3.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam4.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam5.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/cam6.JPG

The scratched arrow on the gear is where the DIS ROTOR used to be, does it still aim that way? Let me know What i have to do. The notches on the cams by the teeth are practically 113mm just like the manual said it should be. I also have the lobes perfectly aligned to easch other as you can see in the pictures.

AFJuvat 12-08-2002 11:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
here you go

AFJuvat

Scott R 12-08-2002 11:37 AM

Yep your off. It's gotta be on the MONEY.

Take the belt off the sproket and start over. Funny I am doing the same thing today on mine. Had to adjust the belts, its been 1500 since I installed them. Anyway while adjusting them I lost position and had to start over.

Looks like the 16V is more difficult than my 951.

overkill 12-08-2002 11:56 AM

OK, couple of questions,... what is the engines direction of rotation? During TDC, are the lobes for cyl.#1 suppose to be pointing up as in my pictures or is it cyl.#4 thats suppose to be pointing up? Also, the groove on the cam gear is alot wider than the notch on the cam. Am I suppose to have the notch resting on the side of the groove in the gear opposite of to the direction of rotation?


You see,... if my lobes are aligned properly that is cyl.#1 lobes facing up and I ma suppose to have the notch resting on the side of the groove in the gear opposite of rotation, I wont be able to get the gear marking to line up with the marking on the housing. Can you list steps for me? The FAC MAN is kinda confusing to me. Under Checking and adjusting they have the lobes for cyl.#4 facing up. Don't know what to do.

88_944 12-08-2002 12:21 PM

overkill, Don't play around with this most important line up with timing marks. 2-3 teeths off and BAM! Bent valves!

overkill 12-08-2002 12:23 PM

Whos playin around?

88_944 12-08-2002 12:24 PM

Just make sure it's done right.

overkill 12-08-2002 12:30 PM

Which is the direction of rotation?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/gearDir1.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/gearDir2.JPG

This is what I was trying to explain about the notch and groove. Assuming the direction of rotation is right,... does the notch on the cam have to rest along the side of the groove on the gear opposite of the direction of rotation? Why is the groove on the gear so wide? Is it like that to fine tune the timing? I would imagine through time that the notch would end up on one side of the groove opposite of the direction of rotation. What to do?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...hAndGroove.jpg

88_944 12-08-2002 12:39 PM

I didn't do a "S" head yet but looks like a timing adjustment or something. You must find out on the net to make sure what is the right settings. Maybe someone on this board that did "S" timing would know. Make sure everything is in 1000% sure.

overkill 12-08-2002 12:47 PM

The lobes for cylinder 4 are facing up during TDC?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/facMan1.JPG

Makis 12-08-2002 12:57 PM

I believe it is 1.
The belt sprocket can be adjusted to line up, but from your pictures it looks like you won't be able to do this. I would sugest you remove the belts, set the cylinder at TDC by observing and alligning the mark on the crank pulley. This mark can be seen only from underneeth the engine. Then refit the belts and try to move the cams so that the mark on the cam sprocket can allign with the mark on the housing. Then rotate the crank a few times manually to make sure the valves do not touch the piston and that the cam gear is rotating freely. If the marks stay alligned and the cams are rotating freely you will be probably OK.

ae1969 12-08-2002 01:16 PM

Overkill....

I read that page you scanned and it confused the **** out of me.

Can't help. Just trying to keep your post at the top.

Those 16 valve heads sure look nice......

Just reading that page scared the crap outta me.

It seem like they refer to the timing marks that we use in the 944na and 951 as a starting point and then you refine the timing using the dial guage.

???Do you have the dial guage they are referring to. ??

:confused:

Makis 12-08-2002 01:52 PM

Would not bother with the dual gauge, unless the CAMS originally where set incorrectly. It is possible to set the cams to the original position without the gauges. It is impossible to get the two cams out of allignment if you follow the picture. A one teeth off between the two cams will show a big difference in the visual allignement. The rest of the allignement will be the same as the the 8 Valve version. The cam sprocket allows for some more fine tuning but then you will need a rolling road to test which position is best.

overkill 12-08-2002 02:08 PM

Thanks AE:D

Check it out,... after reading the manual over and over and over, I still dont get it!!! I'm only joking:D I think I understand what the germans are trying to say,... In english,... install camshafts with cylinder 1 lobes facing up. When setting the timing cylinder 4 lobes are facing down. It makes so much sense to me right now. I'll explain,...

Basically, all I have to do now is rotate the cams so that cylinder four lobes are facing up. Once I have them facing up I will spend the time and align the 2 cams perfectly again. They use dial gauges but that to me is a crock of ****. Once i have the cams aligned with cylinder 4 lobes facing up, I then should be able to line up the mark on the gear with the housing therefore allowing me to view the mark through the housing hole. I have to go test this theory of mine brb,...

overkill 12-08-2002 02:15 PM

MAKIS: You are right, you would have to be a moron to screw up the installation of the cams in the chain. There should be 7 links between the notches on the cams. The notches should be approx. 113mm apart. The reason they use dial guages to set the poistion of the lobes with the valve tappets and cam gear. You still dont need the dial gauges seeing that all the you have to do is make sure that the lobes are even with each other. For instance, where I had my cylinder lobes facing up they were perfectly facing each other as oppose to having one facing staight up and the other lying horizontally. I used a straight edge on top of the bridges and meassured the gap of the lobes facing up. The messurement was dead on. You set those lobes the other are automatically set. I need some coffee,...

overkill 12-08-2002 04:53 PM

Wait, thats wrong,....


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