Chassis legs on 944 and 968

[curtibella0008]

I have a 968 which needs a new offside front chassis leg cos the existing one is heavily deformed. I think the chassis leg on a 944 is the same dimensionally and in all other respects - is this true, does anyone know?

[Rasta Monsta]

I think he's talking about the lateral box section/spar in front of the firewall.

[flash968]

do we mean the front subframe rail?

[Jfrahm]

Offside is the side farthest from the kerb, or UK driver's side or the right side in the USA.
A leg is probably the section of the unibody that the A arm bolts to. Picture sitting on the floor with your legs outstretched.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Legs, wow, the English call quarter panels wings, and hoods bonnets, and wrenches spanners etc..... One would need a thesaurus to keep up. I have a Nice new crunchie from service peformed on my ride, incorrect lifting on my car rewarded me with it, but I cant remember what garage did it, so its time for Freddy to get some body fixing tools.....

[fiily]

I'll grab my angle grinder and cutting wheel!

[Arizona_928]

Heavily deformed! From what, road median!?
Nothing a chain and a tree can't fix!!

[flash968]

unfortunately, as a unibody car, if you tweak one of the sub-frame rails, it will almost certainly never drive right again. yes, it can be fixed and driven. it just won't be right. it will always feel like something is wrong. been there done that.

[fiily]

Single poster never to been seen or heard of again!

[murrayg]

Single poster never to been seen or heard of again!

Ya, members here didn't give him a lot of help. Shame.

[djnolan]

The question he asked was if a frame rail from another car - 944 - could be welded in to a 968. Are they the same size and structurally would this repair be advisable? Not being a welder I would think welding it would not be a great idea. It would not have the same strength, and would destroy the galvanizing but I suppose it has been done...

[962porsche]

Originally Posted by flash968

unfortunately, as a unibody car, if you tweak one of the sub-frame rails, it will almost certainly never drive right again. yes, it can be fixed and driven. it just won't be right. it will always feel like something is wrong. been there done that.

You have no idea what your talking about .
NON
I have celette frame benches in my shops
The car is placed on the bench.byall the suspension pick up points and other measuring locations .
What this does is jig the car as tey are when being built new .
If the car is off more then 2.5mm plus or minui then the car will not fit that jig/ fixture and will be out of spec .
If the car simply doesnt fit on the jig you pull it till it does .
Once it does fit the jig the car is in spec and 100 correct .
We have repaired heavily damaged cars from crash damage replacing every thing from the fire wall forward .
We have also done many restorations on cars that the hole chassis rails have been replaced and floors .
So can a heavy hit car be made right again ? Not just yes but hell yes .
Is this car a total needing its rail replaced ?
Not just yes but hell yes .
a 968 is just not worth that much so the repair hours alone will total a car like this with rail damage .

[fiily]

With 20 years in the salvage car business, it proves that anything can be rebuilt. Some insurance co. just total cars out to step away from any liability.

[flash968]

of course a body shop would say something like this. they would go out of business if they didn't. they serve a great function, but none of them can make a bent car feel perfect again, especially a unibody car, whose design is to transfer load across the car, and the placement of whose components are critical to that ability.

to be clear, i blame this on the insurance companies, not on the body shops. the insurance companies won't pay for what should really be done. for example, they won't pay to have paint removed so a repaint is no thicker than original. that's how they stay in business. body shops stay in business by the grace of the insurance companies. most shops won't touch a custom paint job. there is no money in it for them.

having been through this more than a few times over the 40 years of my driving, and 30 years of dealing with this professionally, through multiple frame and body shops, 100% of the jobs have been failures. the car NEVER feels right. sure, it drives. your average camry driver probably won't know the difference either. but it does not react to bumps and anomalies in the road the same way, nor does it lean into turns the same way. bent metal does not act like unbent metal. to start with, it's automatically weaker. that's basic materials properties. a jig is only as good as the number of measuring points. suspension mounting points are only a start. a repair is only as good as how much attention is placed on detail. still, it's really no different than if you break your arm or leg. it doesn't feel the same after it heals, no matter how well it heals.

this does not mean the car can't be driven for years after a repair. i'm just saying that in a performance car, if you plan to drive it hard, you'll probably feel the difference. i know i would. been there done that.

[fiily]

If a car is fixed right, I have never experienced any discernible difference. Now if you just put the car on a frame machine and pull it, then cover it up with spacers, body panels, and trim, your asking for a horrible experience.

75% of people who buy salvage cars are usually looking for deals, and in turn are looking for deals when fixing it(aka shortcuts) which compromises an already compromised car. 25% want to fix it right.

[murrayg]

Internet "experts"!! Holly crap this gets out of control FAST. Flash968, the OP was NOT asking for advice from "experts" on frame repairs. Please refrain from spinning these posts out of control. His question was simple:

WRT his 968 - "the chassis leg on a 944 is the same dimensionally and in all other respects - is this true?"

ANSWER - YES.

done.
too bad he's gone.

[flash968]

lol - yeah - i'm pretty uncompromising. it has to be at least as good as new, and in most cases, i'm looking for better than new, for the same reasons. i'm not budget conscious when it comes to my toys, and even the factory has a budget to answer to, and i often find that what they deem acceptable, is less than what i will tolerate.

[djnolan]

Since I restarted this: In summary the frame rails are the same, but the chassis dynamics will be severely compromised, but is it safe for the old lady to drive?

[962porsche]

For a crashed car to ve 100 percent straight and right it has to be in spec just as it is when 1st built .
If its in the spec of 5mm that would be 2.5 plus or minus .
The car and would be right .
When people make claims that a car could never be the same again then add in a shop owner would say that .it shows they truly know nothing about repairs .
Its truly that simple !
FYI new cars that are built on factory jigs have the same 5mm spec rainge .
The car will either fit on the jigs or not fit .
I know from what is said you guys do not know what or how celette benches work nor have never seen one .
They are really the only way to reoair a car or because my business is building tube chassis car they are what we use to build cars .
Most people think of frame benches as the drive on types .
They havevthere uses but they are not what you use for porsches even the vw/ audi built porsches should not be repaired on a drive on bench .
If you google celette you would learn so much on the proper way to setup a car on a bench for its chassis repair .
So many people that have no idea at all about repairs will tell others a car will never be the same again .
This is the simple truth .

Cars get totalled because of cost to repair .
The 944 chassis cars have no real value .
So even light hits will total one .
Dont get me wrong i own 12 944 chassised cars from the 968 to a base 944 .
They are nice cars but hold no value .
One of my 968's was a total because it had a rear end hit that damaged the reaf body panel broke the tail lamps and broke the rear hatch glass .
Its now a track loaner as it go thru the headache to deal with dmv is not worth it .
It was totalled when it got to the repair being 70 precent of the cars book value .
On a car thatvis worth more like if it was a 996 i light hit like that the car would not be totalled .
Insurance is not going to pay for a repair when they get to 70 percent as its cheaper for them to just write the car off .
Liability has nothing to do with why a car is totalled its about cost .
Insurance cos dont put a value on how much you love a car as it has no value .

I shocks the hell out of me just how little people know about body and chassis repairs .
they stand on the soapbox spouting things they have no idea at all about .
Not just a little but nothing .
They have never been in a chassis shop nor would be able to do what a C chassis tech could do .
Its because of this your told it would never be the same again .
Kind of stands to reason they say this as they could never make it right so in sted of learning about chassis they spout out total BS .
When they talk about bent metal not being the same its tells you right there they have the hack mind set .
If the chassis is that bent the rail needs to be replaced not straightened .
The car not feeling the same that to is way to funny .
The only way this could happen is if the car is still bent .
They are so far out of there element its not funny .

[962porsche]

The physical rails are the same for all the 944 chassised cars .
For mounting the car on the bench they both 944 and 968 use the same fixtures/jigs .
The replacement parts numbers are not the same for any of the models and early to late.
This is because the things that mount to the rails are different .
So you can use the physical rail from any chassis 944 you would have to swap out the mounts and tabs .
The reails are front half and back half .
Meaning they are seamed about half way in the engine bay .
You would be better off posting in the body and paint forum section and not in the 944 section were no one has any clue about body and chassis repairs .