Torx bolts SUCK...

[dgcantrell]

Especially the smaller ones that Audi (and other manufacturers use) on the internals of the engines. These bolts came from the cam bearing caps from our 03 A8L 4.2 I'm currently having to replace a chain tensioner. One of the plastic pads let go, thankfully there was no valve damage. I cleaned the carbon build up in each socket and fully seated the torx bit in the head. Only 3 or 4 broke loose without stripping the head of the bolt. I had to use a pair of vice grips to get them all loose. GRRRRrrrrrr.. Needless to say NONE of these bastards will be reused. I will get some regular 6-point head bolts to put this thing back together. Got one side apart, will be doing the other side today. Fortunately there is just enough room to get the vice grips on the heads of these bolts. Otherwise you'd have to drill the heads off.

[v2rocket_aka944]

Torx and triple square are much less likely to strip than regular Allen heads like you want to use.

[flash968]

those look like triple square bolts. if you use a torx tool on a triple square, it will strip pretty easily.

[dgcantrell]

These did.. I'm not going with Allen on the replacement. I'll be going with 6-point traditional bolt heads. They'll probably be 13mm heads. These are the smaller T27's. None of the T30's did this I'm thinking they're just too small. They stripped out by hand like they were made of lead.. I've never had this many, 17 of 20, bolts do this. I've got to get the other side loose so that's another 20 bolts. I'm not even going to try to break them loose with the socket. Just going just the vice grip method on all of them. I'll replace them too.

[dgcantrell]

Nope, these are Torx. This is one that came out without stripping. I cleaned it up a little for the pic. Definitely Torx.

[mattdavis11]

Did you wake up the bolts by tapping on the socket, a few times each?

[dgcantrell]

Yep, that was the first thing I tried after the first one rounded out. Been there done that many times on other engine tear downs and rebuilds. These things just simply said NO!!!

[running_cold924]

it depends on the torx socket used too. Using a good quality one like snap-on is way better than a craftsman one. Been there done that. I work on these cars for a living and having quality tools REALLY helps. I also use a lot of Cornwell stuff, its been good to me. Snap-on prices can be insane but sometimes (and this is one of those times) it really is worth it to buy...even if its just the t30 you need.

[dgcantrell]

These were Kobalt ones. The tool fits fine and I even used a pick to clean the gunk out of the bolt heads flushing them out even further with some Brake-Clean. It was like they're just soft or something. Ones that were the next size up offered no issues. Anyway I still say they suck even with a uber expensive Snap-on socket. LOL The SOB's are going in the scrap bucket and it looks like I'll be making a trip to Fastenal for some 6x1.0x40mm bolts.... Lowe's had 8........ I need like 40+.....

[Cajundaddy]

Hate torx/triplesquare/allen head fasteners. Just foolish designs by underemployed engineers (my dad was a mechanical engineer). I prefer to use hex head, phillips, or square drive for everything. I own the other tools, but I just think they suck.

As to "waking up" the bolt first, a really old diesel tractor mechanic once demonstrated the tap followed by a very slight turn clockwise to break loose the bolt without stripping. He said they are much more likely to move in the direction last torqued. This has been a very useful technique applied over the years.

[Waz951]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Hate torx/triplesquare/allen head fasteners. Just foolish designs by underemployed engineers (my dad was a mechanical engineer). I prefer to use hex head, phillips, or square drive for everything.

Totally agree about square drive esp for items like drain plugs in transmissions, diffs..etc. Since it is virtually impossible to strip a square drive and it just requires the correct drive breaker bar or ratchet.

[v2rocket_aka944]

I have no problem with such fasteners but just wanted to say, "hey neighbor!"
I'll be moving to Alta Loma later this month.

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Hate torx/triplesquare/allen head fasteners. Just foolish designs by underemployed engineers (my dad was a mechanical engineer). I prefer to use hex head, phillips, or square drive for everything. I own the other tools, but I just think they suck.

As to "waking up" the bolt first, a really old diesel tractor mechanic once demonstrated the tap followed by a very slight turn clockwise to break loose the bolt without stripping. He said they are much more likely to move in the direction last torqued. This has been a very useful technique applied over the years.

[dgcantrell]

And don't even get me started on the "Torque to Yield" nonsense that some engineer/accountant came up with I understand the "mechanics" of it but I really get pissed off when I have to buy new bolts for rods, cranks, and heads.

[running_cold924]

I'll take a good torque to yeild (steel) bolt any day.....if you ever get the pleasure of working on any newer e60s or e90s bimmers, they have stupid ass aluminum single use bolts. Used to put together the entire engine. Just fixed one where the whole engine mount snapped off the block because all 4 aluminum bolts decided to snap. Oddly enough, they are the inverted torx! Another good one is the small head bolt between the oil filter and the valve cover, they like to snap their heads off and create one hell of an oil leak. Fun times...

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

I have no problem with such fasteners but just wanted to say, "hey neighbor!"
I'll be moving to Alta Loma later this month.

Welcome to town. Give me a shout once you get settled and my brother and I will introduce you to our local canyons and watering holes.

[flash968]

there are multiple reasons for single use hardware. threadlocking is a common one. the flywheel cover bolts on the 968 are single use. the exhaust nuts are too. one that most people don't know about though, and continually put themselves in jeopardy over are the bolts that hold down the seats. when this class of hardware is reused, it does not retain the ability to "lock" and consequently presents issues.

in the case of the flywheel cover, if those were to come loose, and i have seen it happen a lot, it can ultimately result in the bell housing grenading, and take off your leg. in the case of the seat, you could go through the windshield in an accident. in the case of the head, you could blow a head gasket, or worse.

from an engineering standpoint, when mixing materials, it is far more critical to use hardware specifically designed to address the disparities in traits of those materials.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Hate torx/triplesquare/allen head fasteners. Just foolish designs by underemployed engineers (my dad was a mechanical engineer). I prefer to use hex head, phillips, or square drive for everything. I own the other tools, but I just think they suck.

As to "waking up" the bolt first, a really old diesel tractor mechanic once demonstrated the tap followed by a very slight turn clockwise to break loose the bolt without stripping. He said they are much more likely to move in the direction last torqued. This has been a very useful technique applied over the years.

id agree with you except that triple squares are fantastic fittings and superior to almost anything, ever. you literally cannot strip one. they are fantastic.

[dgcantrell]

I don't mine the 12 point (triple square) stuff, I've never had an issue with them.. It's these smaller Torx items that gave me this fit.. Plus the 12 points have thicker heads that allow for much easier vice grip action if need be.

[murrayg]

So Flash,...Seat bolts are TTY? And if they fail, you go through the windshield.... really. Use seatbelts much?

[flash968]

seatbelts are only effective when they are used in conjunction with a fixed position seat. when the seat comes loose, the belts become essentially useless. that is why the DOT is very specific about seat construction, hardware use, belt design and placement, etc. it all works together