those **** lifters...

Alexb944 · Alexb944's Garage

Hello all, long time no speak!
Anywho I was able to get my timing belt, and wp replaced! yayy
then my engine started knocking... Yayy
took it to the shop and he said it was exhaust leaks, so he fixed them.
now the lifters started tapping, and tapping extremely loudly...
went back to the shop and asked him how much he would charge to replace them, he told me he would have to take the timing, and balance belt off to replace them Ive been lied to by this shop before but i just want to verify if this is correct.. he said it would run close to 2k to replace them.. is this true?

thomasryan · 03-22-2017, 12:38 PM

'they say' not to use the INA replacement lifters. cleaning the 25 year oil out of your old ones is the preferred route.

you can try to run a bit of marvel mystery oil in the crankcase for a few minutes before your next oil change.

these cars do make noise. sitting for prolonged periods will let the lifters drain down and clack until the air is purged.

Alexb944 · Alexb944's Garage

I drove it for probably 6 months, then it started tapping on my last oil change. 20w50 brad penn.

thomasryan · 03-22-2017, 01:03 PM

mine made noise with Motul but actually likes the green brad penn stuff. drive it and the noise will probably go away.

new lifters are stupid money but there are a few youtube vids that show how to clean the varnish out of them. not anything you would want to pay someone to do.

kevrobert · 03-22-2017, 01:04 PM

Cam carrier removal and belt replacement 40 mins + time to clean gasket surfaces say 1 hour-1.5 hours in all. Porsche lifter replacements would be expensive so aftermarket would be considerably cheaper say $400. More than likey a lot of wear is also camshaft derived. Try an oil change first and flush out old oil.

944 Ecology · 03-22-2017, 01:09 PM

For $2K, I will fly to Knoxville with my tools and new lifters and cam gasket, do the job, then spend the rest of the month at the beach with my ill gotten gains! Find a new mechanic, then you can go to the beach instead of him...

sausagehacker · sausagehacker's Garage

How does your oil pressure look? Definitely get good used lifters over new INA ones. There are a ton of people who have had issues with them.

v2rocket_aka944 · 03-22-2017, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 944 Ecology

For $2K, I will fly to Knoxville with my tools and new lifters and cam gasket, do the job, then spend the rest of the month at the beach with my ill gotten gains! Find a new mechanic, then you can go to the beach instead of him...

I'll do it for $1500.

v2rocket_aka944 · 03-22-2017, 02:50 PM

Really though...I firmly don't believe that lifters go bad.
I think they just get dirty inside and can't pump up.

I'd try the "mix ATF in the oil" trick for a while and see how it helps before the next oil change.
Next up, I'd remove the lifters (40 minute job as someone mentioned) and see about having them ultrasonically cleaned...

mytrplseven · mytrplseven's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

Really though...I firmly don't believe that lifters go bad.
I think they just get dirty inside and can't pump up.

I'd try the "mix ATF in the oil" trick for a while and see how it helps before the next oil change.
Next up, I'd remove the lifters (40 minute job as someone mentioned) and see about having them ultrasonically cleaned...

I used this method and it worked for me.

dgcantrell · dgcantrell's Garage

You can also run SeaFoam in the oil and see if it cleans them out without having to dissemble. I'm in the process of rebuilding the 2.3 5-cylinder Audi engine in my 87 5000SQ and the original tappets (lifters) are INA units. I replace them with new ones. I haven't gotten the engine back in the car yet to run it. I'll keep all the old ones though.

Alexb944 · Alexb944's Garage

what is the "atf and oil" method?

v2rocket_aka944 · 03-24-2017, 07:21 AM

you drain some of the engine oil out and fill it back up with ATF (auto trans fluid) which is a much thinner oil with chemical detergents in it, the idea is that it will flow to places where regular oil might not and clean **** out of the system along the way.

you might run it for a few hundred miles before doing a full oil change and see how it affects lifter noise...

JD159 · 03-24-2017, 07:30 AM

Is this an 8V or a 16V? If it is a 16V, change the o-rings on the small pressure valve in the cylinder head that has to be removed with a small allen bolt near the headers. I am not talking about the OPRV that goes through the oil cooler.

INA lifters are perfectly fine. 928 guys put a whole wack of them in their cars and don't have any issues.

Alexb944 · Alexb944's Garage

Its a 8v, i was thinking of looking into the solid lifters from Lindsey.. because i was thinking of putting in another camshaft. whats your thoughts? can you get a upgraded cam, and use the factory lifters reliably?

JD159 · 03-24-2017, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexb944

Its a 8v, i was thinking of looking into the solid lifters from Lindsey.. because i was thinking of putting in another camshaft. whats your thoughts? can you get a upgraded cam, and use the factory lifters reliably?

I'd stick with a stock cam and get the INA lifters. I have gone through quite a few of them because of my oiling issue that really isn't well documented. 928rus sells the INA lifters and all the 928 guys use it without issue. The INA lifter failure is an interwebs thing. I don't believe it based on my personal experiences and that of a well known community member. If Greg Brown uses them in his 928, they will work fine in my 944.

v2rocket_aka944 · 03-24-2017, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexb944

Its a 8v, i was thinking of looking into the solid lifters from Lindsey.. because i was thinking of putting in another camshaft. whats your thoughts? can you get a upgraded cam, and use the factory lifters reliably?

You need a solid lifter cam to use the solid lifters.
And they have major PITA-potential - you can measure valve lash through the holes drilled in the side of the cam tower but you have to remove the entire cam box when you need to adjust the valves every few thousand miles (or however long Lindsey recommends).

The INA lifter thing to the best of my knowledge only affected the DOHC engines in years past - the current INA offerings are fine...and I'll be using them in my upcoming DOHC build.

rufrob · rufrob's Garage

The last time I did my cam cover I noticed a lot of debris in the narrow channels the supply the lifters, possibly from the first time I did the cam gasket as some shaving fell in the oil passage, or the PO used sealant on it. I had 250,000miles on my first 44 with no lifter noise. I recommend removing, cleaning the oil passages and running high quality oil and Oem filter.

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