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Location: Hudsonville, MI
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What's that whine?

Extensive father-son project.
Just did cam and balance belts, balance shaft seals, front main seal, release bearing and other stuff (have to go after oil leak still, suspect oil cooler, wish we did that when the engine was out last week!)
Runs good but has a whine we can't get rid of, suspect belt tension since we don't have the tool we're doing the twist method. Any feedback on this appreciated.
We followed Clark's Garage instruction, played with balance idler roller position and tried loosening/tightening both belts slightly with no discernible effect (although we didn't loosen or tighten dramatically....yet)
We could just button it up and run it for a while although it has about 5 miles on it and several heat cycles and has not changed.
https://youtu.be/n181tJjv4po
https://youtu.be/WJiwh2sl4AI

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'87 924s resurrection project; '83 944 engine
Hudsonville, Michigan
Old 07-20-2017, 04:15 AM
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Belts are a bit tight. What amount of twist did you use? The usual 90 degrees (on older Audi's) is a little tight for the 924S/944 engines. 110-120 is what I go with. Your's being an S, it probably has the spring loaded timing belt tensioner so that is probably not the tight belt. The balance belt is the issue here. I had the same problem when I did the belts on my 944 the first time. The balance shaft belt is set a bit looser than you would think is should be. I just did the belts on my 88S last year and it's quiet as a mouse.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:37 AM
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Balance shaft belt. If you think it's too loose then it's just about right.
Old 07-20-2017, 05:19 AM
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engine is '83 944 in an '87 924s 90 degree twist on cam and 180 on balance, I didn't really loosen the timing belt much but might just try again a minute.
I can try loosening the balance shaft belt even more, seems WAY too loose to my untrained eye.
I will continue to loosen and check for whine then.
Could also be a vacuum leak or something I guess, we had it ALL apart so anything is possible. Runs good though.
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'87 924s resurrection project; '83 944 engine
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Last edited by jvandyke; 07-20-2017 at 12:06 PM..
Old 07-20-2017, 08:15 AM
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You could take the balance belt off, fire it up and see if the timing belt is actually whining. If it is, loosen it a bit. Once you get the timing belt to shut up, put the balance belt on and set it until it's quiet.
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Old 07-20-2017, 01:12 PM
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My car has a balance shaft delete and there's still whine from the timing belt. It's been set at the correct tension (on the loose side of the range) using the Arnnworx tool, and double checked after a quick drive. Rollers were also new. It's only audible above 3500 rpm....I think it's just how these cars are.
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Old 07-20-2017, 01:30 PM
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You can also listen to the rollers and pulleys with a stethescope to find the whine.
Old 07-20-2017, 02:12 PM
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okay, we had another round today and no joy, just always wants to whine, gunna make a hold-down wrench (actually my son is on it) since its a PITA otherwise and start from scratch, also I realized we weren't backing off TDC by 10 degrees before tightening as per Clark so will be sure to do that. I had tried holding a hunk of wood to various bits and to my ear while running but was inclusive. Ran without the cam belt idler pulley too but made no difference, we'll report back in a few hours.
Can't rule out it's unrelated to belts entirely either I suppose. I'm willing to just run it but it is pretty annoying and the kid is picky.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:35 PM
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Have you carefully checked clearance for the BS belt idler? Just thinking out loud, as it were.
Old 07-20-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slam View Post
Have you carefully checked clearance for the BS belt idler? Just thinking out loud, as it were.
Yes, set it at .5mm off the belt below it, it doesn't touch at rest, sure spins when running, runs smooth. Really driving us nuts, made a good eccentric bolt holder to add in tweaking, even so, still have that whine. We may have bigger fish to fry now too though, I'll start a new thread...
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:21 PM
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I had the same issues with a whine after new belts recently and tried to trouble shoot. I decided to just let them break in a bit and sitting here on my computer I cannot remember hearing the whine last time I ran my 924S.
Old 07-20-2017, 08:07 PM
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I had a whine from the Balance belt as well. After the engine/belts warm up ( 5-10 min ) whine disappeared. I left it that way, after it broke in, I don't hear it anymore.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyke View Post
Yes, set it at .5mm off the belt below it, it doesn't touch at rest, sure spins when running, runs smooth.
A clue. It should only spin when the belt deflects enough to touch it. If it spins constantly then it'll contribute to the symphony that is the 944 engine. (Where did that posh prose come from?)
Old 07-21-2017, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slam View Post
A clue. It should only spin when the belt deflects enough to touch it. If it spins constantly then it'll contribute to the symphony that is the 944 engine. (Where did that posh prose come from?)
at rest the roller doesn't touch the belt on top or bottom but under way it seems to get hit from slap or whatever, as designed I would think, I could remove it completely to see if the whine goes away I guess. I'm leaning towards doing our level best and running it, no big deal to go back in and fiddle.

Now for the oil cooler seals.......
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Yes, it'll spin with belt slap, and you're right in that it's designed to. I wouldn't remove it.
Old 07-21-2017, 12:23 PM
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When you replaced your belts did you remove all of the rollers and clean them?

I did this once in my son's car and got the timing belt tensioner idler and the balance belt tension idler backwards.
When the two are swapped by mistake the timing belt rides against the back timing belt cover and whines like crazy.
The two idlers have shoulders on opposite sides. They look so much alike and can be easily installed reverse.
Old 07-23-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench1 View Post
When you replaced your belts did you remove all of the rollers and clean them?

I did this once in my son's car and got the timing belt tensioner idler and the balance belt tension idler backwards.
When the two are swapped by mistake the timing belt rides against the back timing belt cover and whines like crazy.
The two idlers have shoulders on opposite sides. They look so much alike and can be easily installed reverse.
We tried to keep everything separate and labled but that doesn't mean we did, will check that out. I assume you mean tensioner pulleys and not idlers as they don't tension and are completely different.
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Last edited by jvandyke; 07-24-2017 at 05:17 PM..
Old 07-24-2017, 10:30 AM
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Just move the balance belt idler up so there's like 2-3 mm of clearance. Using the recommended clearance has never worked for me.
Old 07-27-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench1 View Post
When you replaced your belts did you remove all of the rollers and clean them?

I did this once in my son's car and got the timing belt tensioner idler and the balance belt tension idler backwards.
When the two are swapped by mistake the timing belt rides against the back timing belt cover and whines like crazy.
The two idlers have shoulders on opposite sides. They look so much alike and can be easily installed reverse.
I think you're the winner and thank you for posting! They were swapped despite being careful, I highly suspect some PO swapped them as the rear belt cover is worn straight through around the timing belt tensioner and other places. After reversing and a little bit more tension play it's been running for weeks without whine (well there's other noises, but not that one!)
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'87 924s resurrection project; '83 944 engine
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:58 PM
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Thanks for the follow up. I read this with consternation until the very end. I'm a week or so from starting this service on a car that is very important to me. Very kind of you to check in and share an important lesson for those in your footsteps.

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Old 09-05-2017, 09:37 PM
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