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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
Just to make sure I understand the symptom, the starter is rotating, but not the engine, as in click-whirrr?
oh boy - excellent question, but this is tricky/tedious to re-describe please bear with:

When the starter is on a test machine on a bench, (and tested one time, and not "stress-tested"), it passes.

when the 944 is completely assembled, there is NO "click-whirr". there is a "click/thunk", "click" where I measured over 10 volts on the starter a couple different times as described/suggested up there^^^^.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom944 View Post
Could be too much resistance in the starter cable - look for corrosion. If this is the case the starter wonít be able to draw enough current to spin.
there is some corrosion. however, I thought measurement of 10 volts while holding the key down on the ignition switch would rule that out.

a light coat of dielectric grease was applied at installation time and - and this was a happy result - PlastiDip to cover the terminals. was easy to remove the ... the nuts... I mean, the nuts were firm.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukowski View Post
...when the 944 is completely assembled, there is NO "click-whirr". there is a "click/thunk", "click" where I measured over 10 volts on the starter a couple different times as described/suggested up there^^^^.
So neither the engine or the starter motor spins? Like the starter motor either isn't getting electricity or the starter motor binds up?
Old 11-19-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
So neither the engine or the starter motor spins?
on the completely assembled 944, correct.

however, bench testing the starter shows - at least one time - starter spins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
Like the starter motor either isn't getting electricity [...]
no because - if the measurement you described, and I performed - over 10 volts is observed when holding the key down for ignition. The Bosch instructions say you need over 9.6 volts I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
[....] or the starter motor binds up?
... that is my guess - starter motor is stuck.

however, today's testing shows the engine rotates as expected, and the ring gear - especially where I took the starter off - is essentially ok, no obvious damage.

and recall, this no-start condition was worked around by holding the key down for 30-60 seconds, at which point "rrrummmmmmmm" the engine sort of turned alive - every time, this is what happened - no typical "ksh ksh ksh ksh" during ignition. not sure if that is relevant....

... this thread is getting so long I think the answer is going to be embarrassing. meanwhile, I'm working on the alternator belt - and then there's the "car died" event...
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:08 PM
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With a starter when you turn the key it sends 12v at low current to the solenoid. This then clicks on and switches the main 12v to the starter motor and the starter turns. If you have no click then the solenoid is faulty or not getting the correct voltage when you turn the key. If you get a click and the starter does not turn then the issue is not enough power to the starter, faulty starter or starter stuck.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom944 View Post
... If you get a click and the starter does not turn then the issue is not enough power to the starter, faulty starter or starter stuck.
Interesting- after seeing the bench test in action, I am wondering how to set the system up to activate the starter without the starter turning the ring gear - does the starter ground through the housing?
Old 11-23-2017, 05:45 AM
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I had the same problem. Starter would not spin. The problem was the negitive ground. The negitive ground is under the intake manifold . Clean the contacts.
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Old 11-23-2017, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schubert View Post
I had the same problem. Starter would not spin. The problem was the negitive ground. The negitive ground is under the intake manifold . Clean the contacts.
This is brilliant.

Is it better to pull the intake off or just try to reach down in there?
Old 11-24-2017, 04:42 PM
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U can get at the cable and nuts thru the intake manifold. U don.t have to take the intake off. I had a mechanic do the repair. I had thirty years of junk on the nuts.

Good Luck
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:19 PM
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Are you sure the battery is good? Can you get it load tested at AZ or someplace?
Old 11-24-2017, 05:58 PM
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@djnolan - another good point, yes I had it *load tested*, and its good.
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:53 AM
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interesting findings :

"This has proven to be a good fix for that slow starter motor problem."

source:

Negative Battery Cable Relocation Adapter [BCRK01] - $12.82 : ArnnWorx Specialty Tools
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:24 AM
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Before tearing out the battery cables you should do more diagnostics. There should be a detectable excessive voltage drop (using a digital volt meter) if there is a bad starter or ground cable. You could also use a jumper cable between the neg battery post and the engine block to rule out the cable.

Voltage Drop Testing
Old 11-25-2017, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
...You could also use a jumper cable between the neg battery post and the engine block to rule out the cable.

Voltage Drop Testing
Thatís an interesting piece - now, the jumper you suggest - exactly what gauge of wire? And is this to mean to detach negative battery cable?

Meanwhile:

It appears that a coolant hose - connected to a vacuum valve (EDIT this is the heater control valve hose, HCV) - is the primary obstruction to both grounds in that area. I am estimating 13 mm for the bigger ground.

... any tips for detaching the hose?

And any tips to save my back? One of those braces perhaps...

Last edited by Bukowski; 11-25-2017 at 08:26 AM..
Old 11-25-2017, 08:08 AM
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First use your DVM to easily check the voltage drop across that cable this way: Set DVM on 2V DC scale, then connect your DVM between the engine block and the neg battery post, and have an assistant crank the engine while reading voltage. Per the article the voltage should read near zero, not more than .6 volts. If higher then this cable (or either end) could be your problem.

Do the positive cable to the starter connection in the same way.

It shoudn't take more than 10-20 minutes to run through the electrical checks on the starter circuit in the AAA link if you have an assistant crank the engine while you hold the DVM leads on the battery and starter posts, etc.

If it is the negative you can try tightening the bolt using a universal swivel socket you can get it in there without disassembly with a good swivel.
Old 11-25-2017, 08:43 AM
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Looks like the DME ground is a 10 mm hex nut.

What then is the battery/alternator ground nut? I canít precisely measure it - itís 10-15mm I guess - Iíve gone full MacGyver to do so! Anyone?

@djnolan ó I appreciate the PM - letís see if we can do the hard way first!
Old 11-26-2017, 07:40 AM
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Using alligator clips to the fuel rail and to the battery clamp I just got a 0.200 voltage drop on the negative cable. I used the 20 volt scale and disconnected and grounded the coil wire. I checked the resistance value (around 5 Ohms) to make sure it was a good connection of the meter leads
Old 11-26-2017, 10:36 AM
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Answer to the hex nut question:

I get a good grip with:

13mm Craftsman 1/2Ē drive regular socket
1/2Ē-3/8Ē adapter (Kobalt?)
3/8Ē u-joint (Craftsman)
Wicked long 3/8Ē extension

... 1/2Ē drive Craftsman U-joint too high

Have to press up good but not death push on the HCV hose.
Old 11-26-2017, 11:11 AM
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had a chance today to work on this. couple questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnolan View Post
they say "... connect meter positive (+) lead to battery positive (+) post (not the clamp or cable), and the meter negative (-) lead to battery negative (-) post."

I figure this is only possible with the pin-point leads, but wouldn't that burn up the DVM?

"Ground the ignition coil wire, or disable the ignition circuit or fuel pump relay"

to disable ignition, can I just disconnect the center ignition cable from the distributor cap? when they write "ground the ignition coil wire", doesn't that require a separate wire to ground it to something?

... and then a dumb question : since the car doesn't start, is this even necessary?
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Last edited by Bukowski; 11-28-2017 at 09:49 AM..
Old 11-28-2017, 09:45 AM
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