88 924S starting issues help!!!

[Johnny O]

Hi everyone, I've been reading your posts on starting issues and have my own and need help. My 88 924S sat for a couple of years being started off and on due to my battle with cancer. As to which I'm on the mend and I want to drive my car. Anyway I've been slowly working on it and it did start and run just last month. Since that time I decided to give it a tune up and I've replaced these parts (which were all factory original) Bosch coil, Bosch distributor & rotor, Beru spark plug wires, Bosch spark plugs, Bosch crankshaft sensors (reference & speed) also all fuses and a F9 DME w/pump prime, plus a new starter and battery. Also a couple of years ago I had the timing belts and counter balance belts & pulleys and new seals installed among other things it needed. Now after tuning it up it will not start and barely cranks. I have a throttle sensor on order as well as a temp sensor. So what now? I'm taking the battery back because for it to be new it should hold a charge better I feel. What's next or where do I look now, I'm tired and just wanna drive my car again. Thanks...

[dgcantrell]

Sounds like the battery is the issue. Were you able to get it running with the new battery at all If the new battery wasn't at full charge, I'd put it on a charger and get it charged up before putting a load on it.

[Johnny O]

No, with the new battery no start or even a good hard crank. I had it on the charger like I do with my bike 2% trickle charge. I even bumped it up to 6% charge and let the battery get at 100% charged and then tried it, and it barely tried to turn over. Then I tried it with the charger on it, trying to jump start it and got the same results. I live in central Ky and don't know any really good or reliable car shops to take it to in the area. My good friend and mechanic whom I trusted and had his own successful shop passed away unexpectedly a few years ago, my brother has helped with some stuff and is a good tech, but not a Porsche specialist. I've had an electrician friend whom I trust go over all my connections with a thumb's up (he also installed my starter, since I can't do certain things yet). I do plan to take the battery back ttomorrow I got it from AutoZone so there should be no trouble returning it.

[dgcantrell]

I'd also take the starter and have it tested.. It may just need a solenoid. $40 part, easy to swap out.

[Johnny O]

My electrician tested the solenoid before he left and it was showing good. The solenoid & starter were both new also, they were from AutoZone as well. Can you recommend a really good battery or do you think the AutoZone is ok and I just got a bad one. Or any ideas of what else to be looking at? Also my car is one of the few with automatic transmission cars which I've read is kinda rare, but unsure how many are and Porsche has no idea, only how many total were made. I also have the M10 engine.

[dgcantrell]

"Showing" good and "being" good are two different things. I went through 3 starters at Advance Auto a few years ago before I got a good one. You can put a meter on one and checka few things but until you test it off the car (to eliminate everything but the starter itself) you cannot really know it's good.

As far as batteries go, I've gone with the Wal-mart EverStarts on all my cars over the years. All have lasted 5-7 years. I have a couple of Advance Auto ones that have lasted about the same. However, the prices on all these things have damn near doubled over the past 6 or 8 years. It's ridiculous. The key for keeping a battery healthy on a car that you do not drive that often is to get small trickle charger to keep it at full charge.

I'm not sure of the production numbers but I would definitely think the autos were smaller in number.

[JonA]

Charge up the battery and have AutoZone load test it. If it is good I'd check the connections at the starter and if they are ok I'd remove the starter and take it to AutoZone.
I've had much better luck with a local shop repairing and rebuilding my starters and alternators over the years. I'm just more comfortable getting my own stuff back.

Good luck,
Jon

[Johnny O]

Ok I exchanged the battery and have a good new one, and also tested the starter and it's all good also. Rechecked all my connections electrical and vacuum. I also installed a new throttle sensor that arrived in the mail. I tried turning it over again and it wouldn't do anything like before no change. So we were going to hand turn the motor just to see if it would turn, but I didn't have a big enough socket to do it. Then my friend suggested taking the plugs out and try the key again. Only this time it did turn over slowly like a bad battery would and it shot gas out the #4 cylinder. After that it did start to turn over a little better. So we left it alone over night to make sure all the gas evaporated out. Then reinstalled the plugs. Now it is trying to turn over better, but still not enough to start and yes I tried jumping it and even put the battery on charge and it is a good battery. So now after all I've done I'm at a standstill and my wits end. All I've done is to give a 28-year-old car a really good tune up since most of what I replaced were the factory originals so I could keep her running for many more years. So what now???

[JonA]

Sounds like maybe hydraulic lock, liquid in the cylinder will not compress and will prevent the engine from turning over. Usually it's antifreeze that leaks into the cylinders and causes this problem but I guess it could be gasoline if an injector has failed big time.

With all the plugs out the starter should spin the engine at proper speed. If it doesn't you have another problem. Get the proper socket and see if the engine will spin easily, with the plugs out, with your ratchet at the crank nut. If there is a lot of resistance you will have narrowed down the problem and maybe some of the more experienced guys here would have suggestions.

Don't give up, you're a lot smarter that that chunk of metal.
Jon

[dgcantrell]

Socket is 15/16" or 24mm. Yeah, if it doesn't turn over easily without the spark plugs, you've got some other issue. Pull the AC and Power Steering Pump belts to eliminate one of them is locked up.

[onZedge]

Maybe a silly question, but is the auto trans in "park" or "neutral"?

[Johnny O]

To answer the tranny question I've tried both selections. So today I installed my new temp sensor that arrived in the mail and also put my old coil back in cause I know it's good and got the same results. So since I don't have the right size socket yet to hand turn the motor. I removed the plugs again and tried it. The motor again started to turn over better and gas shot out the #4 cylinder again, but not as much as the first time. So I cranked it a couple of times to clear it better and now just leaving the plugs out and will try in a couple of days and plan to hit up Harbor Freight over the weekend to get the right socket to hand turn it and see how it goes from there. By the way I do appreciate everyone's input. I'm no tech in anyway, but I can do something's. I've spent the last couple years battling cancer and my last scans have been good. I just wanna drive my Porsche again, you all know the feeling and joy we get just zipping down the highways thanks again for all your help...

[Johnny O]

Just wanted to share a picture from better days and now.

[JonA]

Compared to your battles of the last two years, this will be easy. All the guys here will help.
Keep posting.

Jon

[Johnny O]

Well it turns out the car was hydraulic locked, but by gas in the cylinders. The car does hand turn over and with the plugs out the engine turns with the key in both park and neutral positions. I am stumped with the plugs in and they are the correct plugs and gapping I get the same non start results I am completely baffled now because I have fuel, fire and compression and the car still won't start. It's a sad day in Muddville...

[dgcantrell]

If it's hydraulic locking on you, you're getting TOO much fuel. Which cylinder was the fuel in? Injector may be stuck open flooding the cylinder.

[JonA]

Clark's Garage Home Page

Look at TS-01 Engine Troubleshooting

Do you know if you have spark at the plugs? You mention new plugs, correctly gapped but are they actually sparking?

Jon

[Johnny O]

Again thanks for the help in trying to track this down. I just don't understand how tuning up my car and installing oem or close to the original parts would make it not run or be worse. You'd think she'd be screaming down the open road and firing better than before, not this crap and I've tuned up many, many cars in my day working in my parents gas station growing up. I've just never see one get worse. I haven't changed any settings, just put the new parts on per specs. Hell it was running with 28-year-old factory originals with a bad battery I had to jump to get it started. Just don't understand what went wrong...

[Johnny O]

Originally Posted by dgcantrell

If it's hydraulic locking on you, you're getting TOO much fuel. Which cylinder was the fuel in? Injector may be stuck open flooding the cylinder.

It was #4 cylinder that had gas blow out. I did upgrade my DME to the F9 with pump prime because I was having a starting issue before the tune up. I also have the F9 DME without pump prime that I ordered as a back up to carry...

[dgcantrell]

Number 4 injector is probably stuck partially open and dumping too much fuel. You'll need to swap it out with a good one. Might not be a bad idea to put a squirt of oil in that cylinder and turn it over by hand with the spark plugs out to oil up rings and cylinder wall that has been washed down by the excess gas. Be sure to get as much as you can back out before starting it. Leave the plugs out till the last minute. Spin it over with the starter to blow out any excess, install the plugs and fire it up. It'll probably smoke a little on start up but it should clear up after a few minutes of running.