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Potential 968CS Buyer, Advice Needed

Hi Transaxle fans,

I'm occasionally over on the 911 forum but I have come over to this side for your advice please.

I have been given the opportunity of buying a 1994 968CS with just over 100k miles on the clock. I think the price is fair (I'm across the other side of the pond) and I have been a fan of the 968 for a long time. Apologies but I do not want to disclose too many details on the price and location etc. It has full history from new. A Porsche COA and just 3 owners. The original owner selected a few of the comfort options so it isn't the full on track focused version.

Is there anything in particular that I should be aware of before I start the negotiations? Is there an achillies heel with these cars? Anything that would give me a better background and a little more knowledge would be very much appreciated.

In the meantime I'll get back to my research and try to convince the Mrs that i know what i am doing.......

Cheers,
Jason.
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1994 968CS
1977 911S
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1958 Norton Dominator
Old 01-31-2018, 10:54 AM
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Timing belt + water pump service is the #1.
Since it's a 968, has the camshaft chain and chain tensioner pads ever been serviced?
Old 01-31-2018, 11:26 AM
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lol - don't buy a CS if you want to drive it on the street. the antiquated stock koni setup for the CS sucks, and that's what you are paying most of the money for. there is far better aftermarket stuff out there.

additionally, as the previous owner added comfort features, there isn't much left separating it from a regular 968, and you will be paying a premium for the name.

a waste of money in my book.
Old 01-31-2018, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

[QUOTE=flash968;9908920]lol - don't buy a CS if you want to drive it on the street. the antiquated stock koni setup for the CS sucks, and that's what you are paying most of the money for. there is far better aftermarket stuff out there.

additionally, as the previous owner added comfort features, there isn't much left separating it from a regular 968, and you will be paying a premium for the name.

a waste of money in my book.[/QUOTE

All good points and I agree about the comfort options maybe 'softening' the CS features. However, it is a geniune CS and that's where the extra premium comes in, whether it's worth it or not?

I've neither driven a 968 or the CS so cannot comment on the suspension set up at the moment. I would be really disappointed if it sucks that much.

Thanks for the feedback.
Jason.
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1994 968CS
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:54 PM
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autocross guys will likely disagree with me, due to the lower point penalties of an M030 suspension, and that has some merit if you plan to autocross. similarly anybody who spent the money on one, since nobody likes to admit they made a mistake, will also disagree. however, there is no denying that the koni shocks and such on the rear causes the back of the car to dance around, denying the driver of the pleasure the 968 can bring. one of the key features of the 968 is its predictability, and was even dubbed "the predictable porsche". the M030 suspension throws all of that in the bin.

buy and set up the car for how it will be driven 85% of the time. don't buy it for the name, especially if it no longer has the true CS features. you would only be paying a premium for something that will be more expensive to run (M030 shocks and brakes are expensive), and less enjoyable to drive on a daily basis than a standard 968.
Old 01-31-2018, 11:22 PM
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Check the maintenance records, what was done, when and by who? The future reliability of the car will be dependent on past maintenance, done on time by a competent shop. All the value of the car is in the build, so do make sure all the parts are there. M220 (LSD) was unfortunately just an option but a CS is very deficient without it. Comfort options added by the original purchaser are common and nothing to worry about as long as they didn’t overdo it. A radio, alarm, carpet were popular and acceptable “comfort” options but when you start adding back AC, electric windows/mirrors or soundproofing you are losing the CS/RS experience. It drives like a lowered, stiffly sprung car, if you like that sort of drive on the street you’ll be fine.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:27 AM
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All 968s are on the rise in value and the CS is one of the leaders. We had some record 968 sales in the US last year and there is currently a CS listed on eBay for $79k so if you get a good one it will likely be a great investment. Look for the typical items to support a great candidate. As much of a paper trail as possible helps. Full history of maintenance, original paint, and for the car to be in original condition. Any cracks on the dash? When was that timing belt last done? Good luck.
Old 02-01-2018, 05:49 AM
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i would disagree about "all" 968s rising in value. in fact, there are higher mileage cars now available for as little as $7-8k. asking price has nothing to do with sales price. hype does not equate to sale. the average sales price is about what it was 5 years ago. low mileage cars (under 40k miles) are fairing better than high mileage ones, which are seeing prices plummet, as can be expected with any car.

regardless, value is not why anybody would buy one of these cars. they are never really going to be worth anything. they are the red-headed step-child. they always will be. we will run out of gasoline before your average 968 is worth $50k. that's peanuts in the car world. they will likely never reach their original sales price, regardless of published obvious shill sales (and there have been a couple recently).

none of that takes away from what the car can provide. buy it. drive it. enjoy it. toss it on the heap when you are done.
Old 02-03-2018, 06:49 AM
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Thanks all once again for your comments.

Over here you cannot get a CS for less than 30 grand (Euro/Pounds) and these include the full blown track day cars that have been hammered for the last 20 years or so. Of course there are the 80k cars advertised too but I doubt they are selling for that.

The one that I am keen on has a great history behind it which includes all service records and receipts etc. it was specified with Aircon though which I would obviously appreciate but does take it a little further away from that 'true' CS feel......along with the electric windows, cloth front and rear seats. It does however have the LSD which is good.

I was so close to pulling the trigger on this on Friday but when I spoke to the dealer (a friend who I got my 911 from) he couldn't confirm when and if the dampers had been changed since new and the belts/chain has been done some time ago. He recommended that they do the belt service before I drove it away.

Also, some of the paint has a very slightly different shade of red to it than others. At first I thought it was just the photos (I haven't seen it in the flesh) but he confirmed it. It's never been in a shunt of any kind but some of the paint is definitely 'newer' than others. Maybe I could use this to negotiate but I really do not want to get a car which would need an additional amount of my money and time to make perfect.

If I didn't have the 911 which is eating up all of my cash due to rebuilding the engine then I would probably have bought this already. I know it's a luxury problem and I need a few days to think about it.

Your comments and advice is helping and is very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Jason
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:28 AM
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lol - if you expect to find ANY 968 that doesn't need work, run away. you can expect at least 1k a year, and more likely 2k if you drive it a lot. if you don't do your own work, run away, or break out your checkbook. it is getting increasingly difficult to find shops and parts. more an more parts are becoming no longer available. more and more shops are moving on to other cars. it is quickly becoming just as difficult to deal with as any other old car.

the 968 is really a cult car. it has a devoted following, and they are dedicated to it in spite of the challenges. however, it is not for the faint of heart when it comes to ownership. i loved both of mine, but i am a bit of a masochist that way.

something to consider about a car that has been tracked: one one hand, if you get the anal retentive owner, a tracked car can be in better shape than others, as they tend to keep things clean and do a lot of preventative maintenance. however, if you get one that had a tight budget, the car will be beaten badly.

as for paint - it is incredibly common to see rework on red cars. that color fades and oxidizes faster than any other. it is not uncommon to see it on other colors these days too, but red is the worst. i am a fan of red cars as a rule, but i also am prepared to accept the challenges.

do the homework. take your time. be sure.
Old 02-04-2018, 02:00 AM
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Jason, I wouldn't wait. As you have seen, CSs continue to rise in value so it is best to get your machine now if you have the opportunity. With a full history it sounds like a great candidate. Be sure to post some photos if you end up with the car.
Old 02-05-2018, 09:35 AM
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"value" is irrelevant. it will never achieve any real value. even if it doubles in value, it will still only be worth $60k. that's pocket change in the collector car world.

another thing - they are expensive in the UK, as is almost any car, and not a measure of what they would be anywhere else, but they are also right hand drive. that pretty much sucks to drive in a left hand drive world.

buy it, mod the hell out of it and make it a better car, enjoy it for as long as you can support it, then toss it on the heap when you are done.
Old 02-05-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff968 View Post
Jason, I wouldn't wait. As you have seen, CSs continue to rise in value so it is best to get your machine now if you have the opportunity. With a full history it sounds like a great candidate. Be sure to post some photos if you end up with the car.
That's what I am thinking too, although I do try to not buy a car on it's re-sale value. It's more heart over head which normally means that I will in fact lose money in the end.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash968 View Post
"value" is irrelevant. it will never achieve any real value. even if it doubles in value, it will still only be worth $60k. that's pocket change in the collector car world.

another thing - they are expensive in the UK, as is almost any car, and not a measure of what they would be anywhere else, but they are also right hand drive. that pretty much sucks to drive in a left hand drive world.

buy it, mod the hell out of it and make it a better car, enjoy it for as long as you can support it, then toss it on the heap when you are done.
Well that's the other attractive thing about this particular car......it's a LHD and although I am Brit, I'm living in Germany so it's ideal!

Am I talking myself into this?
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:48 AM
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i can completely relate to this. i am an american, now living in ireland. i have a TR-4 in the US that i am considering bringing over here. i left my 2016 special order targa GTS there, as well as my special order twin turbo V8 X5, my electric i3, and my other 968. i sold them all before i left, purely because they really could not be driven here. i spent a good bit of time and money restoring the TR-4 though, so i didn't sell it yet, and it has a certain "cool factor". however, the reality is that i would likely never be able to drive it here. it's just too dangerous driving on the wrong side of the car for the road. you can't see around anything, and on the fun roads you need to have more visibility, not less. no big deal on the highway, but who wants to drive those in a fun car? insurance is going to be a pain too.

my heart is likely to lose out to my head on this, and i will almost certainly sell the car, rather than bring it over here.

clearly i am showing my age.

Last edited by flash968; 02-06-2018 at 04:25 AM..
Old 02-06-2018, 04:23 AM
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I know what you mean. My MGB is a RHD car and I have used it a lot for Classic regularity rallies here in Germany and Austria. I don't find it too bad to drive on the wrong side of the road (right) but that's also down to the dimensions of it and it's tiny. However, driving my 911 which is a LHD on the island (UK) isn't very comfortable due to the small country lanes etc.

Sounds like you have sold some very nice cars. You should keep the TR-4 though as these are really lovely little cars.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:55 AM
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Actually Flash, many used cars are much cheaper used in the UK than they are in USA, despite having cost a lot more to buy new here
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:02 AM
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yeah - like anything, there will be both ends of the curve. it's always hard to tell what will and won't climb, but there are some basic rules, and the most important one for any potential collector car is that it struck a chord with the public. the 968 never did that. sure, it was somewhat innovative and unique, but so was the edsel. that doesn't put it in the high dollar zone. factor in inflation, and you will find that not many cars become worth anything, and they often take 50 years to do it.

jase - yes, i have had quite a few. i had a number of MGBs too. in fact, i had a shop specializing in those, and raced one for a long time. i've pretty much lost my love of clanky old cars though, so i think the TR-4 will have to go. it's just going to be too hard to drive on these roads, largely because it is left hand drive.

however, to perk my sportscar interests, i just grabbed up a 2005 smart roadster (they never brought them into the states). i immediately swapped out the engine for the brabus engine, and then remapped it to 120hp (up from the 60hp of the original engine). with a 6 speed tiptronic, and only 1780lbs, it's pretty fun, and reminds me a lot of the MGB, but i have GPS, heated seats, and a heater and windshield wipers that work.
Old 02-06-2018, 05:31 AM
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Window wipers that work......Fair point Flash Oh what fun!

I agree with your opinion on the 968 and it would be a sought after car for somebody who know's what the are looking for. I guess it wouldn't be the car to buy for somebody who just wants a Porsche?
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:49 AM
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Jase, the 968 is enjoying a healthy fan following in the north America. As the 968 rep for the Porsche club of America I am constantly approached by 911 owners looking to get into the model. The latest issue of Panorama, the club magazine, has a 968 featured on the front cover and a great article on what a great drivers car it is. I currently own 3 and had 5 at one point last year. You can tell I'm a true fan. Keep us posted on your purchase progress.

https://www.pca.org/panorama/edition/panorama-january-2018
Old 02-06-2018, 07:12 AM
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