Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Upper strut mount bushings

Greetings--

Are there any heavy duty rubber upper strut mount bushings available?

H2OSB
Old 02-09-2018, 02:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
9FF 9FF is online now
Too Many Porsches
 
9FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,292
For what car?

The later (87on) Strut mounts are more robust but you will have to change your whole front suspension to 87on in order to fit them if you have an early car.

Why do you think you need heavy duty rubber strut mounts? Most people use strut mounts without any rubber and incorporating a spherical bearing in the form of camber plates for heavy duty track use.
__________________
Mike A
Current: 1986 951; 1986 944; 1986 944 (Track); 2000 996 (Cab); 2005 CL55 AMG; 2009 GTS V8 (6-Speed).
Past: 1972 RS1600; 1983 E24 M 635 CSi; 1985 308QV; 1985 UR Quattro; 1986 944; 1989 M635 CSi; 1990 560 SEC AMG; 1994 E34 M5 (Track); 2001 461 Puch G; 2002 E46 ACS3; 2006 X308 XJR; 2010 LP560-4 Corsa.
Old 02-09-2018, 02:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Well, let me come clean first. This is not for a 924 or 944, it's for a VW Super Beetle. I have discovered late Super Beetle, VW Rabbit and 924/early 944 all use the same upper strut mount bushing (physical size, that is).

The only ones available for the Super are incredibly squishy. Since I'm building the car for street/autocross, the squishy parts are less than ideal. VW Motorsport USED to make a high durometer rubber bushing for the VW Rabbit, which would have been perfect, but due to age, the Rabbit is no longer supported. There are urethane bushings made for the Rabbit, and I have a set, but I'm afraid they're TOO stiff. I don't want the car to pound my teeth out on the road.

My remaining hope is to find a 924/944 bushing that will fit the bill. Based upon weight difference, the factory replacement part may work fine, but I thought I'd ask here to see what was available. I'm not interested in the pillowball mounts. They are already available for the Super Beetle, but for reasons listed above, I believe they'll be far too harsh.

H2OSB
Old 02-09-2018, 03:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
9FF 9FF is online now
Too Many Porsches
 
9FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,292
Ah ok. Well you could always remove the rubber on a stock mount and fill with 60A urethane for a firm but compliant mount. It’s a common hardness urathane used for firming up 944 trans mounts. There’s a guy (user:xschop) over on RL who did this with early 944 strut mounts.
__________________
Mike A
Current: 1986 951; 1986 944; 1986 944 (Track); 2000 996 (Cab); 2005 CL55 AMG; 2009 GTS V8 (6-Speed).
Past: 1972 RS1600; 1983 E24 M 635 CSi; 1985 308QV; 1985 UR Quattro; 1986 944; 1989 M635 CSi; 1990 560 SEC AMG; 1994 E34 M5 (Track); 2001 461 Puch G; 2002 E46 ACS3; 2006 X308 XJR; 2010 LP560-4 Corsa.
Old 02-09-2018, 03:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Though I de appreciate the suggestion, I think I'll try the stock 924/944 part first. They simply cannot be as soft as the Super Beetle part. With the huge weight difference betwixt the respective fronts ends, the 944 would very rapidly kill the Super Beetle part.

I'm not looking for the last Nth degree of handling out of the car, just improved handling. You'd be amazed what 924/944 parts bolt directly onto a Super (late suspension). I have a 14mm 944 rear sway bar, 23.5mm 944 rear torsion bars and 944 rear brakes (including the slick parking brake). On the front my coil overs are made from 944 strut housings (the 944 part is LITERALLY the same part as the factory late Super Beetle strut EXCEPT for the top hole on the 944 strut is elongated) but with Rabbit inserts. Until recently, I had 944 front brakes from the spindle out...but I decided to scale back to a 914 front derivative (they're vented).

ANYway....
H2OSB
Old 02-09-2018, 03:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 637
Some early 944 people fit the mount from the VW Fox:

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968/793382-early-strut-mount-vw-fox.html

These are under $16 from some suppliers.
-Joel.
__________________
1987 928S4
1992 968 cabrio
1994 968 cabrio - Supercharged
Old 02-09-2018, 04:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
9FF 9FF is online now
Too Many Porsches
 
9FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
Though I de appreciate the suggestion, I think I'll try the stock 924/944 part first...
Just be aware that the bearings in 944 mounts are set into the rubber at an angle to match the angle of the strut. Early mounts are angled differently to late mounts as the strut angles changed on the later (87 on) cars. They are not spherical bearings in the stock mounts so they wonít adjust for any side loading caused by differently angled struts.

I donít know the geometry of your VW front suspension but if it is not very close to a stock 944, the bearings in those strut mounts may fail prematurely.
__________________
Mike A
Current: 1986 951; 1986 944; 1986 944 (Track); 2000 996 (Cab); 2005 CL55 AMG; 2009 GTS V8 (6-Speed).
Past: 1972 RS1600; 1983 E24 M 635 CSi; 1985 308QV; 1985 UR Quattro; 1986 944; 1989 M635 CSi; 1990 560 SEC AMG; 1994 E34 M5 (Track); 2001 461 Puch G; 2002 E46 ACS3; 2006 X308 XJR; 2010 LP560-4 Corsa.
Old 02-09-2018, 04:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Ahh, thank you for that tip. I didn't realize the bushings had integrated bearings. The bearing for the Super Beetle and the Rabbit is part of a separate metal piece that fits up inside the rubber part. It is centered, not angled.

I think I'll try the other excellent idea of using the Fox bushings. If they'll hold up to the weight of a 944T, they should be an improvement for the Super.

Thanks both!
H2OSB
Old 02-09-2018, 06:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 586
please post your findings as I am working on a 1303 at the moment.
Old 02-10-2018, 04:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
I will, however, you might want to be looking on The Samba or Shop Talk Forums. Or my website SuperBeetlesOnly.com (well, you're better off finding the FaceBook page. most of the activity has moved there). I came here because I'm using many Porsche parts, but these guys USUALLY like to stick to Porsche content (well, in this case, they were most helpful).

H2OSB
Old 02-10-2018, 10:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
9FF 9FF is online now
Too Many Porsches
 
9FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
Ahh, thank you for that tip. I didn't realize the bushings had integrated bearings. The bearing for the Super Beetle and the Rabbit is part of a separate metal piece that fits up inside the rubber part. It is centered, not angled....
I think youíre missing my point. All strut top mounts are angled to match the angle of the strut. The bearing may fit in centered and square but it is still angled by the mount. Itís just if you are using a 944 (or otherwise) strut mount in a different application, it may not match the angle of the strut in that application. It may fit fine but will likely cause the rubber to slightly distort and put a side loading on the bearing. The bearings in stock mounts are not spherical and therefore any side loading will cause them to fail prematurely.

Here are the early and late 944 strut mounts, side in yellow is lower than side in red providing an angle that matches the strut rod going through the bearing. The early mount (left) is not as angled as the later (right) mount, youíll have to take my word for it as itís difficult to see in the photo, itís differently angled as the late strut has a greater angle than the early strut. If you fit either of these mounts on a different application, you would have to ensure the strut is angled the same.

Anyway hope that makes sense and is useful info.

__________________
Mike A
Current: 1986 951; 1986 944; 1986 944 (Track); 2000 996 (Cab); 2005 CL55 AMG; 2009 GTS V8 (6-Speed).
Past: 1972 RS1600; 1983 E24 M 635 CSi; 1985 308QV; 1985 UR Quattro; 1986 944; 1989 M635 CSi; 1990 560 SEC AMG; 1994 E34 M5 (Track); 2001 461 Puch G; 2002 E46 ACS3; 2006 X308 XJR; 2010 LP560-4 Corsa.
Old 02-10-2018, 12:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Oh, ok. I think they're similar enough to not have that be an issue. An early 944 mount literally fits in the place of a 1303 (late super beetle) if you remove the front two studs. They look nearly identical. Since the strut housings are the same, it's a safe bet the rubber part is going to fit.

H2OSB
Old 02-10-2018, 03:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
Ok, I'm going to report my findings.

I bought a pair of 1993 VW Fox upper strut mount bushings after reading through a thread on VWVortex where the Mk1 Golf (Rabbit)guys were looking for something more performance oriented on their limited year rebuildable upper strut mounts. I purchased them for a VERY reasonable cost on Rock*uto. I knew they would fit because I had already purchased a set of Mk1 Golf urethane bushings sometime in the past from Prothane on a whim simply because they LOOKED like they would fit (and they did) and they were inexpensive.

So, while sitting around a couple of days ago, I got to playing with a used n/a 944 strut mount I had from an old pair of struts I bought to build coil overs for my Super Beetle (WHOLE nuther story there...). I popped the rubber part out and found it to be very similar to the Super Beetle rubber part, and oddly, even MORE squishy. Thus, I tried the urethane Rabbit bushing in the 944 mount, and LOW AND BEHOLD! it fit. So if you 944 track types are looking for Something stiff to replace the squishy rubber portion of your strut mounts but don't want to go to the extreme or expense of a pillow ball, you can use VW Rabbit urethane bushings. Like I said in my first post, I believe the urethane bushings would be too harsh for street use, at least on a Super Beetle. For a track or autocross car, urethane might just be the ticket.

So, with regards to the VW Fox bushing, they are DEFINITELY a higher durometer rubber than either the Super Beetle bushing or 944 bushing. They are physically taller than both other parts by approximately 6-7mm in the case of the 944 and about 2-3mm vs the 1303 part. The bearing sits approximately 3-4mm deeper into the bushing relative to the top compared to the 944 bushing, but nearly identical height of the 1303 bushing. The Fox bushing is a tighter squeeze into either 944 or 1303 mount, and actually a slightly better fit into the 944 mount. This, however, could be due to the newness of the rubber. The molded in metal part that retains the bearing looks like it is literally the same part as the 1303 mount excepting the Fox part is integrated into the rubber so as to be non-removable, where the 1303 part can be removed. In fact, I think the Fox bushing and the 1303 bushing would be physically the same if the rubber wasn't present to keep the metal section from being removed on the Fox part.

In conclusion, I believe this Fox bushing will address my needs, and I further believe it could be made to work on a 944 for a performance improvement.

H2OSB
Old 02-15-2018, 02:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 74
follow up. The Fox mount has a little extra material in its profile that VERY SLIGHTLY interferes with installing the bushing into either the 944 or Super Beetle mount. I'm going to give a slight touch up with my mounted belt sander to see if it improves the fit.

H2OSB

P.S. The LATE 944 mount looks VERY similar to the EARLY Super Beetle mount. I wonder....
Old 02-15-2018, 02:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:29 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2017 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.