crank pulley removal

[87m491]

And I do mean pulley, not the crank bolt. I had some weirdness after I dove in and did the T belt and balance shaft seals that were leaking on my 89 944 turbo. I tag teamed with a friend who had a lift.

Restart was fine but had some low to very low oil pressures on the very short drive home. This car has always had the characteristic high oil pressure on start up and 3+ as warm idle. I never knew there was a low oil pressure on the car until now. Oil level is fine.

I pulled the belt covers off and all were still perfectly aligned. As my friend did the crank pulley reinstall, I was gonna pull it to make sure the tbelt crank cog gear was set properly. I got the bolt out no problem, but the crank will not slide off, even with some persuasion. first time in it slid right off! It is free and clear of the belts and tension, no idea what the deal is here.

Any BTDTs welcome

[IdahoDoug]

Well, I suspect you're going to find the answer to the low oil pressure behind the pulley, and it sounds like the pulley was possibly mashed on crooked or something got distorted because the oil pump gear was not properly meshed spline to spline. From experience, that gear can be tricky to put on, and if you're unaware of how deep it was when you took it off, you would easily be fooled into thinking its fully seated back on. I knew of this issue from this forum, so I took a photograph before I removed it, then used that to know when I had fully seated it. Mine both looked and felt seated when it was not. The friction of the seal made it feel as if splines were engaged, and the depth "looked" normal as well. That is until I referred back to the picture and could clearly see the gear was an eighth in too far out, meaning the splines were NOT engaged.

If it was not seated, subsequent wrenching of the pulley bolt to its huge torque would likely mash the gear in an improperly supported fashion. That may mean its distorted and perhaps pressed together and bound with the pulley.

If I'm right, you'll need to use a 2 or 3 armed pulley puller to pull the pulley off. If you are up against time constraints, I'd just order that gear because this is almost certainly what happened and that gear's gonna be messed up. You'll need the radiator and fans out of the way I think. My puller was a very awkward fit and I had to pull it in two stages due to lack of space to hook the pulley with the arms, etc.

Sorry you're dealing with it.

[87m491]

Thanks a bunch. I guess using a puller is not that unusual but as you said space is tight. I'll try that and report back. If this is as bad as it gets for me trying the whole job myself, still not too bad.

[Bradical]

I can say that I have had the same experience with a crank pulley coming right off and then not coming off on the same car. I suspect it has something to do with the key- if it hasn't been filed/sanded and doesn't seat perfectly into the key groove before the pulley is installed it will contribute to little binding. Just a small amount of friction is all it takes to take it from easy to the cusp of impossible.

If you used pliers to remove the key (I couldn't think of a better method tbh) and didn't run it over with a file then it's a given.

I agree with a gear puller, which is never as easy as it sounds. If you aren't worried about maybe having to put on another crankshaft seal I think a pry bar and a benzomatic on the crank pulley will make it walk right off.

[87m491]

We'll a few pullers later and I am close. Had to separate the PS pulley from the balance belt cog and use a puller on it. Initially they came out together.
Had to get a different puller for the Tbelt rear cog and it was slow going but it is nearly off. Working on your back in this space is a challenge to center the puller etc. I'll need to readjust the puller for the last bit. I'll clean it all up and reinstall.
I was half expecting to see the rear most washer missing but all I can think at the moment was that it all was not tight enough leading to the low pressure despite it being seemingly torqued to 150 ft lbs.
Without a lift this time I'll torque from the top and see what happens.

[87m491]

I Didn't change the crankshaft seal as it was not leaking, false economy perhaps.
But since I Didn't mess with it or the pump cog, I'm assuming that it it still properly seated. Is there a way to check?

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

Well, I suspect you're going to find the answer to the low oil pressure behind the pulley, and it sounds like the pulley was possibly mashed on crooked or something got distorted because the oil pump gear was not properly meshed spline to spline. From experience, that gear can be tricky to put on, and if you're unaware of how deep it was when you took it off, you would easily be fooled into thinking its fully seated back on. I knew of this issue from this forum, so I took a photograph before I removed it, then used that to know when I had fully seated it. Mine both looked and felt seated when it was not. The friction of the seal made it feel as if splines were engaged, and the depth "looked" normal as well. That is until I referred back to the picture and could clearly see the gear was an eighth in too far out, meaning the splines were NOT engaged.

If it was not seated, subsequent wrenching of the pulley bolt to its huge torque would likely mash the gear in an improperly supported fashion. That may mean its distorted and perhaps pressed together and bound with the pulley.

If I'm right, you'll need to use a 2 or 3 armed pulley puller to pull the pulley off. If you are up against time constraints, I'd just order that gear because this is almost certainly what happened and that gear's gonna be messed up. You'll need the radiator and fans out of the way I think. My puller was a very awkward fit and I had to pull it in two stages due to lack of space to hook the pulley with the arms, etc.

Sorry you're dealing with it.

[thomasryan]

155 ft pounds on the bolt?

[87m491]

That's the spec.

Originally Posted by thomasryan

155 ft pounds on the bolt?

[IdahoDoug]

So, are you saying that you did not pull the pump cog - a tubular part with splines facing the block? If so, then it would be safe to assume it has been properly seated, if (IF) pulling the pulley did not partly dislodge it by having it come out a bit which I did not think of until you asked.

My photo alerted me it was not fully engaged with the splines. Until I checked that, I had no idea it was not fully seated. I'd grabbed the cog with my fingers to see if it would spin and it did not. I even used a rag and pliers to see if it spun and it would not. So I was surprised when I finally got a good enough grip on it without damaging it to suddenly realize it would turn and was not aligned with the splines. So I turned and pushed, turned and pushed, repeated until it majestically went further in. That surprised me and I posted it last year because I was concerned at how easy it would have been to assume the splines were engaged when I could not turn it and simply put the pulley on.

Hope that description helps you. If you were in my area I'd come lend a hand!!

Doug

[87m491]

I had to separate the alternater belt pulley from the balance belt pulley in order to use the puller. It wouldn't fit other wise. I then also had to use the puller on the timing belt cog pulley. I scotch brighted it all back up and with a hint of anti sieze It all slid back on by hand.
In examining the PS pulley, I believe it was slightly cocked the first time through and even with 150 ft pounds it just slightly deforming the pulley seat and did fully engage the cog gear to the oil pump thrust washer. There was evidence of spinning wear on the cog gear face.
I had it resurfaced. Being very careful to keep the PS pulley centered while tightening the crank bolt, it was easy to tighten to 155 ft lbs from the top of the engine this time. Start up and pressure at 5 bar as always.
I effectively did the Tbelt and balance belt service twice, but learned a lot.

[IdahoDoug]

Nice. Glad to hear it and another beauty back on the road.