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Torque Tube Rebuilding

Unfortunately, I have been through a few torque tubes due to issues with my conversion and having to use 20 year old replacements. Fortunately, I have sourced all of the parts needed to rebuild these monsters, including having the the drive shaft collars made by a machine shop out of delrin.

Here is a picture of the puck:

There are four of these in the tube although I am running a 5th one in the front of the tube.

The black plastic part in the center is the drive shaft collar which is difficult to remove and save. In most cases it becomes worn due to bearing failure. I could not find these collars anywhere so I had them made.

I live in Northern Virginia and instruct for NASA, BMW, AUDI, MB, Trackdaze and a few other groups so I'm at a track at least once a month.

As we know replacing the torque tube is a major pain. More and more are going bad and there are less and less of the good used ones available. My thought was why pay $200 for an unknown commodity when for a little more I can have all new guts.

I am offering two rebuild options and assumes that your drive shaft is reusable:

1) Replace the existing bearings with OE steel bearings and delrin collars for $320.00. I would warranty the parts and workmanship for 3 years.

2) Replace the existing bearings with Ceramic Hybrid bearings and delrin collars for $404.00. I would warranty the parts and workmanship for as long as you have the tube. The specs on this bearing are unbelievable for strength and heat resistance. My set up will definitely out live my days at the track.

3) A 5th bearing would cost 55.00 for the steel bearing, 75.00 for the ceramic hybrid.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome. Shipping in and out is possible, but the cost would probably be close to $100.00 each way.

If anyone has a torque tube with a damaged shaft, I would be happy to take it off of your hands.

Thanks as always.
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Last edited by marcesq; 03-09-2009 at 08:43 PM..
Old 03-06-2009, 05:36 PM
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I wanted to give everyone a heads up on something I just learned about. One of the 928 companies is producing a "super torque tube bearing" (my terms not theirs). They apparently are in the process of making the same bearing for the 944 torque tube.

Here is the thread link that I ran across: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=484166&referrerid=68196


No one seems to know how much the bearings will be, but in the interest of full disclosure and making sure that everyone knows what's out there I offer this for your consideration.

In the same thread there is a reference to a vendor who sells aluminum shaft collars. I have my reservations about using aluminum over delrin for the reasons in my post there.
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Last edited by marcesq; 03-11-2009 at 08:57 PM..
Old 03-11-2009, 05:56 PM
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Would we be able to buy just the delrin collars w/ bearings? Shipping the whole tube for me is prohibitively expensive.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:31 PM
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Similar thought, would you be willing to source just the repair kit? I'm not afraid of doing the work, but being able to source a kit (rather than having to hunt everything down on my own)would be interesting to me.
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:13 AM
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Because I can not afford to do runs of 100, the delrin collars are the biggest expense for me at this point, however, I have had interest, like you all here, to buy a "kit". I will find out Monday what a run of 40 collars will cost. Once I find out I can price out the kit, otherwise it would not be much less than my rebuilding the TT. You would, of course, save the cost of shipping the TT.

The price will be more expensive than other kits out there, but most people (like the guy on e-bay) are selling C3 clearance bearing (4 to 6 dollars each) when Porsche originally specified C5 clearance bearings, which can't be found any more. My "OE" bearings are C4 which have a tolerance which is within microns of C5. The C4 bearings are slightly less expensive than the Ceramic Hybrid but for my money I went with the Hybrids.

The Ceramic Hybrid bearings are double shielded with steel (not sealed with plastic or rubber). They do not suffer from heat exposure at all and do not expand like the steel ball bearings so they last much longer (bearing vendor says 3x longer but I have no way of verifying that).

You will also see aluminum collars (guy on e-bay). I don't think that aluminum is a good idea for the collars. If it had been Porsche would have used it rather than coating a steel collar with a plastic material. It is clear that Porsche did not want metal to metal contact between the non hardened shaft and hardened bearing cases. I am guessing that the plastic provides a small amount of shock absorption with no chance of becoming rusted or fused to the drive shaft.

Thanks for the interest. I will post Monday on the cost of the kits.

If you need a kit now, PM me and I'll see if we can work something out.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:08 AM
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It seems as if there is more interest in providing a rebuilding kit than doing the rebuilding so here is what I can do:

4 ceramic hybrid bearings and delrin collars for 300.00 plus shipping.

I'm having trouble getting any more of the C4 clearance steel bearings so for now I'm only offering the ceramic bearings.

Please do not buy any kit with the C3 bearing or buy a bearing replacement that is C3 clearance as they will fail far sooner than you would like.

Here is a picture of the front and rear of the new bearing with collar installed.

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Last edited by marcesq; 04-12-2009 at 01:16 PM..
Old 03-16-2009, 06:39 PM
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Why is delrin advantagous in this application? I must be missing something as I have never taken one of these apart but doesn't the shaft force fit on the inside of the bearing without actually utilizing a frictional surface (thats the purpose of the bearing)? Also if that bearing heats to over about 180F the delrin is done for (assuming your using delrin 150).

Just trying to understand...

-Beefey
Old 03-17-2009, 11:17 PM
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Please look at the puck in my first post. Porsche had a sleeve inserted in the bearing. The sleeve is steel with a plastic material bonded to the steel.

My opinion is that the plastic coated sleeve provided insulation and some shock absorption. As I said above, if Porsche wanted to have the bearing pressed directly on the drive shaft they would have designed it that way. The fact that a sleeve had to be manufactured for this application (adding cost to each unit) means that it was deemed a necessity rather than a luxury.

I use Dupont Delrin, not the generic brand, which has a melting point of 350F. Delrin has been used in this application without event. It does not expand or contract in any measurable amount. As for the temperature, if the plastic material on the sleeves did not melt, I doubt the Delrin will have a problem.

Thanks for the great questions!!
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Last edited by marcesq; 03-18-2009 at 08:03 AM..
Old 03-18-2009, 07:20 AM
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Your most likely right but I wasnt refering to the melting point...

Long term servicing temp = 185F so after that it gets gooey, ask me how I know.
http://www.sdplastics.com/delrin/delrin%5B1%5D.pdf

I thought the shaft was actually press-fit into the bearing that's where my confusion lies.

-Beefey
Old 03-18-2009, 09:22 AM
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Right, I see what you are referring to. I don't think that the Delrin sleeves will be exposed to 185F, however, that being said according to the spec sheet it can handle intermittent exposure to 300F.

What did you have go to goo on you??
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:05 PM
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I was machining some delrin bushings the other day in the machine shop and the feed rate was WAY too high so it got too hot and basically ripped/smeared through it. I spent an hour cleaning plastic out of the flutes of the mill...

I suppose if it does get to 185 you most likely have bearing failure and then there are bigger fish to fry.

-Beefey
Old 03-18-2009, 01:25 PM
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Keep me in mind for the rebuild kit. It will be the last time that the tube will need attention
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:29 PM
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Friendly reminder
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:41 PM
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Im interested in a kit. I need something that can withstand 4-500whp/tq. What about the bearing carriers?
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:50 AM
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Uber,

There are 2 limiting factors for the torque tube, the first being strength of the drive shaft and the second being vibration. I have never heard of a drive shaft snapping. In fact the main shaft of the transmission will bend before the drive shaft will break. I remember discussing this with George Beusilink when I was building my former turbo motor.

Vibration comes from the drive train in general, torque tube bearings that are wearing out and/or a worn pilot bearing. All you can do about vibration is make sure your front engine mounts and pilot bearing are in good shape and rebuild the torque tube when it's down for a clutch replacement.

Your engine will not rev any where close to the rpm limit of the bearings which is 13,000.

I would suggest going with the Ceramic hybrid bearings and adding a 5th bearing half way between the front end of the tube and the OE first bearing. I am running this set up and it is smooth.

I'll do the five bearings with one installed in a carrier for $370.00 shipped.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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Sorry for the late response. Ive been waiting for the 928 off shoot kits, but dont think I be able to wait quite that long, Im going in for the final tune this week, want to get that noisy tt outta there so.... Is 370 just for the bearings, and a carrier? What about the bushings?
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberDub View Post
Is 370 just for the bearings, and a carrier? What about the bushings?

Bushings are included with the kit.

Please let me know. Thank you.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:30 AM
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Hey now,
The car will be in the air this coming up week, we will know for sure if its the tt. really cant imagine it being anything else, pilot bearing, and clutch are new. Should be looking to pick these up this week. How long to ship to Phoenix? 85282. Itll be in the shop so, sooner the better. Always trying to minimize down time.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:03 PM
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do you have a kit for a 924? (77 NA)
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberDub View Post
Hey now,
The car will be in the air this coming up week, we will know for sure if its the tt. really cant imagine it being anything else, pilot bearing, and clutch are new. Should be looking to pick these up this week. How long to ship to Phoenix? 85282. Itll be in the shop so, sooner the better. Always trying to minimize down time.

Sorry was at the track this weekend. I can ship them to you FedEx or USPS next day. Both services have 2 day shipping. The USPS 2 day is included in the price, the FedEx is not.

Please let me know and I can have them out to you tomorrow. Send me a PM with address, etc.

Thank you.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:31 AM
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