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All Spooled Up
 
Join Date: May 2009
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WTB - 930 clutch disc.

If anyone has go one FS that is either new, almost new, or <1K miles, send me a PM.
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>gray 89 951S - K27/8, MAF, 3" intake, 3" exhaust w/separate waste pipe, 55# inj, late cam; >red 87 924S - chip, K&N, punched-out cat&muffler >black 80 924 - (sold) >maroon 77 924 - auto (sold)
Old 12-13-2009, 02:27 PM
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your average wrencher...
 
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performance products/auto-motion has a knock-off one for $100
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1986 951 Garrett turbo, Rogue Tuned.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:31 PM
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ebay $78 new DC sales piece Ive used them on my street and track cars, for the money I couldn't complain . if you need the link pm me

Last edited by dp951; 12-16-2009 at 04:47 AM..
Old 12-13-2009, 08:44 PM
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I checked the $78 one on ebay, and I'm not too thrilled to see that it only has 4 center springs, whereas a "true" knock-off should have 6.

I also checked **********, and THAT one also only has 4 - not a true knock-off of the sachs, either. Plus, they want $128 for it, not $100.

I'm not convinced that either of those are sachs knock-offs. It appears that they are just no-name generic replacements for a sachs. For one to be a true knock-off, it should look just like the sachs, and have 6 springs, not 4. That fact alone makes me believe that they are less robust than the sachs disc. Is there a non-sachs 930 disc out there that has 6 springs (I think the actual number would be 12, because each "one" is a spring inside another spring)?

And how come the sachs 930 discs that I see on ebay range in price from less than $300 to more than $600?
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>gray 89 951S - K27/8, MAF, 3" intake, 3" exhaust w/separate waste pipe, 55# inj, late cam; >red 87 924S - chip, K&N, punched-out cat&muffler >black 80 924 - (sold) >maroon 77 924 - auto (sold)
Old 12-15-2009, 07:08 PM
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If he claims he has used them in his street and track car, it should be fine. It's got less springs so it won't be as smooth. Oh well it's only $80.
Old 12-15-2009, 07:48 PM
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I have a few used 930 clutch discs with good thickness.

PM me if interested
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Tom Butler
1973 RSR Clone
1970 911E Restoration in Progress
Old 12-16-2009, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindra View Post
If he claims he has used them in his street and track car, it should be fine. It's got less springs so it won't be as smooth. Oh well it's only $80.
Not necessarily. If I'm not mistaken, the rules regarding performance mods on those cars are very strict. I think they need to be pretty much stock. But I'm at close to +100hp @ 20psi. If I drop down to 15psi, there is no slippage of the clutch. I have no problem with spending 80 bucks on parts that can be easily changed, but clutch replacement on these cars is a major job (I prefer to use the word "hassle"). My major worry with those 4-springers is that, if they skimped on the center sections, they likely also skimped on the outer sections. This means that the linings will wear down faster, and have increased likelihood of coming un-bonded.

Tom, if you could PM me with some non-exaggerated thickness measurements (and asking prices) on the discs that you have, I will consider going that route.
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>gray 89 951S - K27/8, MAF, 3" intake, 3" exhaust w/separate waste pipe, 55# inj, late cam; >red 87 924S - chip, K&N, punched-out cat&muffler >black 80 924 - (sold) >maroon 77 924 - auto (sold)
Old 12-16-2009, 03:56 AM
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organic
CHARACTERISTICS
Metal-fiber woven into "organic" (actually CF aramid with other materials), original-equipment style. Known for smooth engagement, long life, broad operating temperature, minimal-to-no break in period. Will take hard use, somewhat intolerant of repeated abuse (will overheat). Will return to almost full operational condition if overheated. Material is dark brown or black with visible metal fibers.
USE Street-driven cars up to 400hp, auto-x and track use.
kevlar
CHARACTERISTICS
A high-durability material more resistant to hard use. Engagement is similar to organic, but may glaze slightly in stop-and-go traffic, resulting in slippage until worn clean when used hard again. Higher temp range in general, but can be ruined from overheating - will not return to original characteristics if "cooked". Has a break-in period of 500-1000 miles during which slippage may occur. Care must be taken during this period not to overheat from excessive slipping. Material is uniform yellow/green and may look slightly fuzzy when new.
USE Street-driven track cars up to 500hp, auto-x and heavy track use. Will take hard use, intolerant of abuse (will overheat and not recover completely). Due to the unforgiving nature of Kevlar, it is not recommended for street cars, especially those that see frequent stop-and-go traffic which will cause surface glazing of the clutch.
segmented kevlar
Same material and characteristics as solid kevlar above, but segmented (blocks or sections missing) for better heat dissipation. New generation of kevlar offered by UUC is resistant to glazing and is an excellent choice for smooth operation in high-powered cars or those equipped with SMG transmissions.
USE Street-driven track cars up to 650hp, auto-x, and heavy track use.
hybrid carbon/ceramic/organic
CHARACTERISTICS
Organic material on one side and a segmented carbon or ceramic material on the other. The idea is that the organic side will help smooth the engagement, reducing the shuddering from the segmented side. Engagement is same as organic, but still with shuddering. Temperature and hp range is identical to organic. Carbon/ceramic side will wear flywheel or pressure plate surface faster and will wear out faster in traffic situations. Material is organic on one side (described above) and segmented or completely separate pucks (described below) on the other.
USE Can be used in same situations as standard organic. The "hybrid" design appears to be more of a marketing gimmick rather than an actual performance advantage. Some brands are poorly designed and wear unevenly due to flexation of the clutch disk. For examples of hybrid failure, click here.
carbon/ceramic
CHARACTERISTICS
Very high temperature materials, usually only found on multi-puck disks. Will accommodate 500hp+ Engagement is more abrupt. Will wear flywheel surface faster, especially in traffic situations. Carbon is slightly more durable and flywheel-friendly, ceramic has a higher temp range. Multi-puck design may result in slight shuddering or "stepped" engagement when used in traffic situations, although many users report completely acceptable operation. Material is any of several light hues - gray, pink, brown.
USE Street/strip applications for drag-racing and heavy track use cars up to 500hp. Will take very hard use, suitable for extreme-clamping applications.
sintered iron
CHARACTERISTICS
Extremely high temperature material. Will accommodate 700hp+ Engagement is on or off. Requires special flywheel surface. Material is metallic gray.
USE Strictly for high-horsepower endurance racing. With correct pressure plate, capable of extremely high clamping force. Engagement is like a switch, either on or off. Does not work well when cold. High-durability flywheel surface required, standard flywheels will be destroyed quickly.


Back to our original question, how to choose? The answer depends on the answers to the two basic questions asked earlier regarding intended use of the car and power output. Based on the answers, this gauge will help the decision:

To repeat the important point, do not buy more clutch than you need.

A simple organic disk will handle a wide variety of use - including street use, auto-x, and even true racing. In fact, SCCA ITS racing rules require a standard OE-spec organic disk. UUC has tested organic disks to reliably handle up to 475hp in long-term street use.
A kevlar disk is a good choice for a heavily-tracked or road-raced cars, especially with forced induction.

Carbon/ceramic should be left to high-power cars that see lots of drag racing, or are dedicated track/drag cars.

Sintered iron clutch disks are strictly for endurance racing.

Last edited by dp951; 12-16-2009 at 04:46 AM..
Old 12-16-2009, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild man View Post
I checked the $78 one on ebay, and I'm not too thrilled to see that it only has 4 center springs, whereas a "true" knock-off should have 6.

I also checked **********, and THAT one also only has 4 - not a true knock-off of the sachs, either. Plus, they want $128 for it, not $100.
I hate to correct you but the 4 spring configuration is actually the new sach style. 6 is the old one..... where do you get your information or do you just assume everything?
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Last edited by carlege; 12-16-2009 at 05:23 AM..
Old 12-16-2009, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlege View Post
I hate to correct you but the 4 spring configuration is actually the new sach style. 6 is the old one..... where do you get your information or do you just assume everything?
actually, 6 is the correct style for a 930 disc.

4 (actually 8 since each is a double spring) is the new style for the 951 disc.

wildman is looking for a 930 disc, not a 951 disc.

you can read about the 930 clutch 'upgrade' for the 951 here;
Clutch R&R = Waterpumper porn
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:37 AM
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clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild man View Post
Not necessarily. If I'm not mistaken, the rules regarding performance mods on those cars are very strict. I think they need to be pretty much stock. But I'm at close to +100hp @ 20psi. If I drop down to 15psi, there is no slippage of the clutch. I have no problem with spending 80 bucks on parts that can be easily changed, but clutch replacement on these cars is a major job (I prefer to use the word "hassle"). My major worry with those 4-springers is that, if they skimped on the center sections, they likely also skimped on the outer sections. This means that the linings will wear down faster, and have increased likelihood of coming un-bonded.

Tom, if you could PM me with some non-exaggerated thickness measurements (and asking prices) on the discs that you have, I will consider going that route.
Hello, just curious are you running the stock pressure plate?
The main problem in my experience with most inferior discs is that the spring area ( holding tabs) are prone to stress crack thus the springs pop out. also the other concern with high horse power application is the clamping force.
Old 12-17-2009, 09:06 AM
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I've got this one

65% wear thickness remaining.



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Tom Butler
1973 RSR Clone
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlege View Post
I hate to correct you but the 4 spring configuration is actually the new sach style. 6 is the old one..... where do you get your information or do you just assume everything?
That is certainly something I would not make assumptions about. The ones that I saw with 6 springs were ones' that were for sale on ebay (and I did not see any listed with 4 springs that were sachs.
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>gray 89 951S - K27/8, MAF, 3" intake, 3" exhaust w/separate waste pipe, 55# inj, late cam; >red 87 924S - chip, K&N, punched-out cat&muffler >black 80 924 - (sold) >maroon 77 924 - auto (sold)
Old 12-25-2009, 08:31 PM
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930 4 spring

Old 12-25-2009, 09:21 PM
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does anyone have the factory part number for the 930 4spring?
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:14 AM
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I've decided to go with a NEW 930 4-spring disc for my 951S. But if anybody has an aftermarket PP for a 951 that is in good shape, I would not be above going used on that. But I will NOT consider installing a used OEM pressure plate.
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>gray 89 951S - K27/8, MAF, 3" intake, 3" exhaust w/separate waste pipe, 55# inj, late cam; >red 87 924S - chip, K&N, punched-out cat&muffler >black 80 924 - (sold) >maroon 77 924 - auto (sold)
Old 07-05-2010, 10:54 AM
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