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Location: Sterling, IL (Chicago area)
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Parting 944 Racecar

I am helping a friend part out de/mod a former high level SCCA 944 race car, as he makes it 944 Spec legal. The car is an 8V, high compression, cost-is-no-object SCCA race car from the 1990's. The owner died suddenly, and the car sat in the family's machine shop indoors for at least a decade, before the current owner picked it up. The car had such exotic (if dated) parts such as a full data acquisition system (with a floppy disk drive!), multi-channel A/F ratio, and EGT monitoring.

Vintage, floppy drive data acquisition system (for laughs):

I drove the car complete, and the motor is like no other 8V motor I've ever driven - big torque, revs like a motorcycle, and very short, very close ratio gearing (At 3,000 RPM, I recorded 32,41, & 51 MPH in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, respectively, and about 103 at 6,000 in 5th with 225/45/15 tires). Motor requires race gas - very high compression. Dyno'd at 186 at the rear wheels last year per the owner (I will get a copy of the dyno sheet when I can). Amazing for an 8V motor. It ran 3 events without issue last year. The details of the motor build are long lost, however.

The car is coming apart now, and I am still gathering some information. I will post parts, and update what available as the conversion continues. I have already called dibs on the JRZ suspension, but am putting my Koni doubles up for sale.

First up for sale:

Koni double adjustable shocks, camber plates, and bolts. The fronts appear to be converted M030 units, and the rears are 3011 double adjustable. I have the bushings to match up to 944's metric upper shock mount bolts, and the Ground Control's custom lower shock mount bolts. One of the front Koni's has a stuck lower adjuster, and needs to be rebuilt. The rears have been rebuilt by TrueChoice (timing unclear).





Front Koni double adjustables & spring hat (needs rebuild): $350
Rear Koni 3011 coil over race shock: $650 with bushings, and Ground Control lower shock mount bolts (these are $150 alone)

Weltmeister camber plates - great shape: $350

600lb, 8" 2.5" diameter springs (as new) $70
400lb 8" 2.25 diameter springs (as new) $70

All prices are OBO, but + shipping.
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-13-2015, 05:22 AM
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Next up:

BBS Motorsports 3 piece wheels: 15x7" late offset (about 5" backspacing). These have 225/45/15 Toyo RR's with 6 light heat cycles (beginner HPDE). One set of 4 wheels + tires available now, a second set of wheels to come.

With the RR's, $1,500

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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-13-2015, 05:24 AM
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PM'd for the rear Konis
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Dimi Paralanov
flyinghorsemotorsport@gmail.com

1986 Porsche 944 3.0L 16V Conversion - on track duty!
1989 Porsche 944 $2 - for fun!
Old 02-13-2015, 06:07 AM
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I would be seriously interested in the engine pending more details and price.
Old 02-13-2015, 08:57 AM
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Pulled the motor tonight - one serious build!

Whole motor, with MSD ignition hardware up front.


Oval-port 2.7 head


Big ports, appears ported:



Knife-edged crank (not sure if it's a stroker):





Beefy H-beam rods:


Lightweight, maybe 7 lbs flywheel:


2.7 block:


Partially aluminum clutch housing:

Stahl headers. Collector has one chunk that broke out.


Owner thinks it may be a 3L, but the build records are long gone. Any opinions on if it is a stroker? It does make well over 180 Hp on the dyno, and revs like a race car
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"

Last edited by Sterling Doc; 02-13-2015 at 09:03 PM..
Old 02-13-2015, 08:59 PM
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I would think if the factory 2.7 motor made 165 hp then a full race motor with cam, head work, crank work, balanced internals, exhaust, intake, chip, ignition upgrades and other cheater stuff would easily make 20+ hp over stock and since its so lightweight must revv up and down twice as fast. You lose tourque but you dont need as much in a lightweight racecar. That long engine would cost you over $10k to have built and if you did it all yourself you might be able to get it done for $6k so if piston walls are good on that block its a great deal for someone? Where is engine located for sale? Thanks for posting pics very cool
Old 02-13-2015, 11:16 PM
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Theres 2 ways to stroke this motor, offset grind crank and use special rods and bearings with smaller journal so you get around 2.85 liters you can measure that with calipers to see and post the size here in mm.

second way is the 2.7 block is basically same as 3 liter block with 104mm bores so install 3 liter crank and use 3 liter stock pistons that have been modified for 8 V or custom mahle units which were rare but I have seen them so you can check part # on crank and/or look at nottom skirts of pistons and pull spark plugs to look at top dish this would give you an idea of whats in there?

Last edited by commdiver; 02-13-2015 at 11:29 PM..
Old 02-13-2015, 11:21 PM
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The dyno was 186 wheel HP. '88 944's, which were rated for 158 at the crank, dyno in the mid-130's for rear wheel HP. The 2.7's were rated for 162 crank HP, so maybe in the low 140's rear wheel? The motor would seem to be making 40+ HP more than a stock 2.7.

It clearly has custom pistons, and very high compression. It requires race gas, and used an MSD ignition box to push the spark through. The ultimate goal is to sell the motor, so I am not sure how far we want to take it down. Taking the head off would tell quite a bit, though!

Weighed the parts today. The flywheel weighs 10lbs, stock is 15. Aluminum clutch is 14 lbs, and stock is 20. Clutch has very little wear, though a bit of surface rust. on the flywheel, and figers. With the knife edged crank, and aftermarket rods with short skirt pistons, there is probably 20lbs less rotating mass in this motor. Along with the high compression, this explains why it revs so quickly!

V2 rocket - let's talk on the motor. What else do you want to see/know?
I am in negotiations on the header already, but will hold off on a final deal if you want it with the motor.
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"

Last edited by Sterling Doc; 02-14-2015 at 10:05 AM..
Old 02-14-2015, 10:00 AM
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Koni's are sold!
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-14-2015, 10:05 AM
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must be a 3 liter crank then and special pistons whats the part # on crank say?

3 liter with 10.5 to 1 or higher would explain the 185 hp and lots of torque like you said.
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'83 944 ROW zermatt silver/black, sunroof & A/C factory deleted, houndstooth sport seats, 7Q - 220 LSD short fifth, F & R 23.3 MM 951 M030 suspension, 16" fuch's, manual windows, club sport mirrors, Blk/Wht gauges, rear seats & all sound deadening removed, 968 rear wing, fiberglass hood & 937 F bumper
Old 02-14-2015, 10:06 AM
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It's kind of hard to do the measurement in engine but you can measure center to center of the main bearing to rod bearing to find stroke.
Alternatively pull a sparkplug and set engine to tdc, put a thin wooden dowel in the hole on the piston and measurehow far the dowel goes down at bdc
Old 02-14-2015, 12:47 PM
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It's odd, you can see part of the part number on the picture above showing the rods, but not the rest of the part number, which would tell the story. "944 102" is all there is.
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NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-14-2015, 10:04 PM
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Wow they must have taken some of the meat off that area when grinding crank to lighten. I have a fresh 3 liter crank and 2.5 crank i will measure the distance between center of
#1 - #2 rod journals on both cranks and report back to try and get a reference for you.
In order for you to get this you might have to pull those 2 rod caps off and measure this but you could also look at rod bearings and journal size to confirm thise as well.

Also does it look like they used a turbo flywheel & clutch package with 951 bellhousing? It would throw the timing off just a few degrees because of more flywheel teeth but its been done, a good chip guy can buil that into maps. looks like a very cool build for sure thanks Eric

Last edited by commdiver; 02-15-2015 at 08:08 AM..
Old 02-15-2015, 08:04 AM
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2.5 main to rod cc distance would be 39.45mm

3.0 would be 44mm (half the stroke number)

How high is the CR on this engine?
Old 02-15-2015, 08:09 AM
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I don't have a whistler, so I don't know the compression, but the compression makes it pretty hard to turn by hand. I think we are going to take the head off, and look inside and measure some things. Too much to learn to try and avoid this.
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2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-15-2015, 06:54 PM
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throw a couple pics up of the bore size and piston face also you could measure the valves while your in there to see how big they are and there stem diameter?
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'83 944 ROW zermatt silver/black, sunroof & A/C factory deleted, houndstooth sport seats, 7Q - 220 LSD short fifth, F & R 23.3 MM 951 M030 suspension, 16" fuch's, manual windows, club sport mirrors, Blk/Wht gauges, rear seats & all sound deadening removed, 968 rear wing, fiberglass hood & 937 F bumper
Old 02-15-2015, 06:58 PM
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I finally got a scan of the dyno. One run was on the stock ignition, and the other (higher), using the MSD (it was switchable on the origional set up). No tuning was attempted, It's a really nice, and smooth curve! Subjectively, the motor is smoother than OEM 944's.

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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-16-2015, 11:20 AM
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what a fire snorting monster that must be.
would like to know what kind of CR.
any idea on hours/mileage?
Old 02-16-2015, 01:27 PM
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Engine was taken apart tonight. Looks like we may be parting the motor out d/t scored cylinder walls, but will sell as a package if wanted. All prices + shipping.

Block: $100 + ship for the bare block - would need to be machined.
Pistons & rods: $500
Knife-edged 3L crank: $1,200
Good 2.7L head: $1,000 (stock 48 & 40mm valves)
Aluminum Clutch: $300
Lightweight flywheel: $100
MSD ignition box $150
Good 2.7 intake manifold $200
Stahl Header: $275

The whole cache $3,500

All prices are + shipping.

Scored front of cylinder wall:


$100 + ship for the bare block - would need to be machined.

Appears to be stock 10.9CR, 104mm 2.7 pistons. The one in the scored cylinder measured 4.092. Within a couple of thousandths of original spec, if my math is correct.


With aftermarket rods in great shape:


Worst piston wear:

Picture looks worse than it is. I'd use them in my race car, if I ran that motor.

$500 for pistons & rods

3.0 L crank, knife edged.

Cranks measures out as a 3L, and rod journal 2.047 (by hand) - essentially new. Seriously lightened/knife edged:



$1,200 for the crank. We will get it out, and verify everything checks out before sending it out.

Partial aluminum clutch (14lbs vs. OEM 20lbs). Little wear. Minor surface rust



$300

Lightweight iron flywheel (10lbs vs OEM 15lbs)


$100
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"

Last edited by Sterling Doc; 02-17-2015 at 08:07 PM..
Old 02-17-2015, 07:53 PM
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Gearbox has bizarre ratios:

R&P: 43/9 (4.778)

2nd gear OEM
3rd gear 32/26 -1.23
4th gear 30/29 - 1.03
5th gear 28/36 - .778

So a very short R&P, with relatively tall, but close gears.

I've never seen such a thing. Pinion gear is seeing some wear:

Not sure about selling this yet. Might use the LSD out of it.
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Eric Kuhns
NASA Great Lakes Super Touring Series Director
2007 & 2008 944 Spec National Champion
2015 NASA Eastern Champs 2nd place in ST2 "Franken44"
Old 02-17-2015, 08:15 PM
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