suspension upgrades?

Colorado Kid · 04-03-2004, 02:18 PM

i have to replace my steering rack, upper conrtol a arm, and tie rod ends. is there an upgrades of those parts for an 85 because if i have to purchase those parts, might as well buy performance parts in there place IF POSSIBLE. what else can i do beside a devek sway bar and new shocks upgrade wise.

is 928 International the best place to buy replacemant parts?

carl44 · 04-03-2004, 05:23 PM

Ask Jim Bailey for advice (parts at 928 Int.). My advice is to restore all the mechanicals to good working order and drive it that way. These are awesome cars if they are in good shape (shocks, brakes, tires, alignment, engine). Don't underestimate these cars. When it's healthy, drive it for a while before you think of spending any money on upgrades.

macreel · 04-03-2004, 05:24 PM

colorado kid... I believe 928 Intern'l is a good, knowledgeable, fair place.
They've been good to me.(714)632-9288, ask for Jim (Bailey).

..P · 04-10-2004, 09:26 AM

Leave it stock, you won't be able to touch Porsche engineering with stuff you buy off the shelf, unless you're an experienced tuner, and even then there's a lot of track time to really sort things out.

Most of us can't really even tell if we have a bad shock. Therefore most of us wouldn't know the difference between the standard shocks and aftermarket shocks, the latter may only ruin the ride of the car for you and make it unrealistically harsh.

I used the Boge oil shocks, that were stock on my '83, and they make the car ride like it is a bran new one, which is awesome.

P

fst951 · 04-10-2004, 01:04 PM

I disagree with the "leaving it stock" part on the shocks and springs. For a little more money you can get the ride height adjustable Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs that really give the car nicer handling at high speed, last longer, look better--all important, I know, and are a DIRECT replacement on the shocks and springs. The control arms and power steering should be rebuilt. 928 International is fine, good parts, but high prices. Be wary of guys that tell you to glue your bumper back together with super glue! Anyway, try 928 specialists and Devek as well. All three have good parts, the final two are more realistic on the pricing. For super rebuilds on the control arms, Part Werks of Chicago is really good and cheap, but it can take a long time to get the arms back. If he has them in stock it is a no brainer, but otherwise the customer service can be a little slow....

Good luck

..P · 04-10-2004, 05:43 PM

Right.............the Bilstein will last longer than the Boge. Well, the Boge shocks on my '83 were original, and they went 120,000 miles.

The Bilsteins have a good name, but my bet is, most people probably wouldn't know the difference, given a chance to drive with or without them. Shocks do NOT make themselves known unless they are too harsh, and then then just rattle the car.

The shocks Porsche put on the car, stock, were world class, for a car that was the fastest of the fast, cost was little concern, and they work just fine. Unless you plan to race, upgrades are good, but not a requirement by any stretch. I drive mine fast, I break the speed limit every time I leave the driveway, however I rarely ever spin or squeel the tires, I just haul a$$ any time I can get away with it without endangering myself or others. I have yet to encounter any condition where I thought the stock Boge shocks were a liability in any way, shape, or form.

I run my car over rural roads a generally high rates of speed, probably a lot faster than most people do. Aftermarket shocks are highly over rated on a high end car like the 928.

The same logic is used to justify K&N air filters, and most of us know they are a joke on a 928.

P

fst951 · 04-10-2004, 08:51 PM

I didn't know that Bilstein was an aftermarked shock supplier. I thought that they were an OEM supplier for the Porsche A.G. Factory! I believe that my GT has Koni shocks. Again another non Boge shock on a 928. It must have been a mistake at the factory. I should call them up and demand Boge replacements.

Your car could have come with the worlds best Boges to make it 120k miles and it still doesn't refute my claim. I never stated that Boges were crap. They are fine. I just know that the difference in driving a 928 on the track or in a high performance application between the Boges and stock springs and a set of Bilsteins with Eibach springs is very different. The Eibach springs alone allow for much less body roll and better control in cornering. On a bumpy back woods road, however, those Boges and factory springs being softer will certainly make for a more comfortable ride.

K&N makes a fine filter if used properly, they just don't filter as well as a factory Mahle in most applications. I have used both properly and have had no problem with either. I didn't realize I equated K&N with Bilstein. Does Bilstein make an air filter that you don't like as well? Just kidding! I certainly didn't say that switching to the Bilsteins was mandatory either. The post just asked about alternatives. I guess I should have listed the factory Koni parts as well. Try to read the posts a bit more carefully before spouting off half-cocked. I wasn't looking to pick a fight. In fact, I like Boge and always replace them on street going cars, but prefer the Bilsteins on the road going cars.

We may agree to disagree, doesn't mean that either of us is wrong.

Thanks

..P · 04-11-2004, 05:14 PM

As a junior member, has anyone told you to kiss their a$$ yet today? No? Well then let me be the first.

I'm giving solid advice on this forum based on solid experience, and probably have more Porsche hardware in the parking lot and miles under my belt than you and all of your pals, from the sounds of your "technical comments". My comments are intended to save people their hard earned money, and not get caught up into marketing programs.

You say you don't want to pick a fight, but then you tell me I'm spouting off half cocked. Sounds like you missed the last class of your Dale Carnegie class.

First: Air filter 101. Don't take it from me. You do your own homework on this one. You call 928 Specialists and ask for Wally. Then after you talk to him, then and only then are you qualified to post anything about air filters regarding the 928. To post they build a "fine filter" is bull $hit. Personally, the reference to how "good" the K&N air filter is, just blows your credibility with regards to the 928. Don't post back to me on this one, do your homework first and take the time to call 928 Specialists first. Pay your own tuition, I'm not going to do it for you.

As for the Boge shock. Apparently you didn't know Boge was the ONLY shock available for the early series cars. Rather than booger my '83 S with a conversion not intended for the car, which was the fastest car sold in North America, I called Susan at Devek, as well as others, who are a lot more qualififed than you, in order to evaluate the proper choice for the car. I was advised that there would be essentially "no benefit" for street use, switching to the Bilstein "aftermarket" solution for the 1983 car, but it could be done. Rather than try to "re engineer the suspension" with my opinion (or worse, "yours") based on your catalog shopping expertise, I decided on taking the advice of people who know better. All I'm doing is sharing the advice. Sorry you take offense, as I suspect you're running a K&N and Bilsteins now, or perhaps even sell these products. Wouldn't be the first time someone gave me a lecture on the merits of the K&N, only to be discovered later their opinion was severely "tainted" due to the fact that they were selling this crap.

Don't try to post information you don't know anything about, because people who read this forum may spend their hard earned money on this stuff. Anyone on this forum putting a K&N filter on their car is one, wasting their money, and two, admitting more silicon into their oil. Why would you want to run a silicon slurry across your bearings and rings?????????????????????????????

The only use for a K&N is on the track. Period. Even then, good luck with the oil oiling down your MAF system.

As for the Bilsteins, my POINT, AS STATED, is that I suspect neither you nor the rest of the people on this forum, except for a few notable racers who can truely tell the difference, would be able to tell the difference between a Boge oil, Boge gas, or Bilstein gas shock on their car. The only signal most of us would be able to see is the additional harshness of the Bilstein.

Yeah yeah, I'm running a Porsche with the Bilsteins too, and I know good and well what they do. (Hardly any difference for the price, such a great deal). Since I'm the one who installed them with my own two hands, I think I'm qualified to comment.

See what your last Dale Carnegie class could have done for you.

P

fst951 · 04-11-2004, 07:26 PM

...P

I like the fact that you are spirited and thoughtful in our discussion. Plenty of people have told me to kiss their a$$ and I am sure that plenty more will in the future.

K&N's work just fine when oiled properly. I do sell some parts and I don't sell K&N, but I do sell Mahle air filters. If re-oiled filters work in the Army's helicopters I suspect if properly implemented, they should work fine in an internal combustion engine in automobile.

I can't imagine how a "silicone slurry" would work its way accross my bearings to hurt things. What is a "silicone slurry" anyway and how will silicone damage a bearing when it is likely dilluted better than 1 to 100,000 by engine oil?

I think that Susan and Mark at Devek would say I know a little bit about 928's. I also suspect I own more right now than you have ever owned in your life. I bet that I have also replaced more 928 engines than you have as well and I would also venture to say that I have done more maintenance on 928's than about anyone in the country minus maybe mark/susan and the late Red McClintoch.

I never said that Boge wasn't the only shock available on the early cars. I just said that others were OEM as well. Is this not correct?

You really can't tell the difference between the Bilsteins and Eibachs and your old Boges? Honestly?

I appreciate that you are trying to save people their hard earned money and I respect that. We just disagree on the worth of the Bilsteins.

I am only a junion member because I stopped posting for a little over a year due to a business relocation.

Sorry you take offense to my posting but I really feel that my information adds to the 928 community.

Thanks,

I used to post as garrity928

..P · 04-11-2004, 08:11 PM

a "silicon slurry" is what you get if you ingest lots of small sand particles, sometimes called silica.

People who do oil analysis, as in truck fleet owners, have testified that they get higher silica readings in their oil when they use the K&N filter. Why? Because they admit more dirt into the combustion chamber, the dirt gets literally ground past the rings, and ends up in the oil, where it gets run right over the bearings, over the cam lobes, and everywhere else oil goes. Will you or anyone else "notice this"? No.

You will only notice it over a passage of time, if you own the car long enough to find out what a worn out one is like. Any silica larger than the oil film comes into direct contact with the metal parts. You're a smart guy, figure out the rest. Tip.....you will not find this in the K&N marketing brochure (or any similar product brochures). The 928 air box is waaay oversized for the cfm the stock motor needs. Why would anyone risk oiling down a fuel injection component, or admitting more silica into their motor, all that for an additional $60, ha ha. There's a sucker born every minute.

As for the Bilstein shocks. I've already stated my case twice. Yes, they fit my car, but the wisdom of the day was "keep it stock, save your money".

Now tell me you don't sell Bilstein products.

P

fst951 · 04-11-2004, 09:10 PM

...P

I still have to wonder how prevelant a properly installed K&N filter is to ingestion of sand. You never answered the question of why would the military demand reusable filters in a arid environment like Iraq for engines that cost hundereds of thousands of dollars if they can't be made to work well? I would love to see the data done be an independant lab that shows properly oiled and installed filters being a detriment on the lubricity of engine oil. I doubt a slurry is really much different of a concern between ill maintained air filters of any choice. I suspect more sand goes into the engine via the air pump than a good air filter. Many people never change the air pump filters.

I suspect fuel fouling in the high compression diesel engines is a much more important concern to trucker's oil change intravals. If you want to talk tractor engines, lets get too it. As long as we stick to over the road haulers I can certainly hang with you. I don't know much about marine diesels.

You make it sound like a bird could fly through an K&N. Again I am not saying "use a K&N" I am just saying that properly used they will work fine. All the snowmobiles and desert racing bikes out here in Utah run re-usable filters. Man I would think if they were the junk you descrbibed, the bikes and snowmobiles would never make it more than a hundred miles of a three hundred mile race.

I use bilstein products and will sell them with Boge and Koni. I never offered to sell this post thread starter a pair. I told him/her where to go to find good parts at fair prices. I also never claimed the air box was undersized either. I really don't know how this is relevant. Most people that I have seen with K&N's are looking for the convienence and cost savings of washing their filters out and re-oiling them instead of buying new ones. I haven't sold one in years, but two of my cars do run them the rest have factory pieces.

What about having a lot more parts and cars for 928's than me? Re-thinking that one? All in good fun. Again I hear your concerns, but I like Bilstein for the 928 application. I also like Boge for stock replacement. I also like the Konis on my 928 GT's that are stock from the factory.

Take care

..P · 04-15-2004, 07:26 PM

I don't have to answer the question as to why the military uses whatever it is they actually use on a helicopter. This is a 928 forum and that's where my focus is. As I said, if you want the "quick education" call 928 Specialists and ask a polite question of those guys. If you're lucky you'll get to talk to Dave or Wally. Wally by the way, is an ex NASA engineer.

I'm not trying to pi$$ anyone off, especially you. I am however, out to be sure people get the straight story on the K&N filters, and anything else that I have learned over my ownership of a variety of vintage Porsche wasserpumpers. If the K&N (or the gas shocks I installed on my 944) really made all that much of a difference, I'd be out there telling people to buy that stuff. Yes the gas shocks did work out well, but they are more prone to transfer more road shock to the steering wheel which I don't like, and they also raised the height of the car due to the gas charge, and this causes the car to be less stable at speed. It sits an inch higher than before, and I have not gone to the trouble of adjusting the height (yet).

All the best to you. I guess I don't agree with some of what you promote. No biggie.

fst951 · 04-16-2004, 08:26 PM

...P

I am not intending to promote anything. The list of the three suppliers I provided only promotes them. I did mention that the Bilsteins were an option and I believe strongly in that. Never was the initial poster contacted or any attempt to sway his intent made. Everything I said is in this thread. With a little shorter spring you can get that ride height down to your liking. Yes the Bilsteins will put more shock into the steering wheel and the car chasis. You know I would talk to Wally or Dave, but the only person ever there is Jennie (spelling?) Anyway, all the best and I look forward to locking horns again as I am sure that we will do.

Take care

..P · 04-17-2004, 05:58 AM

You're a spineless bed-wetter and a whiner, and a know-it-all. I can't tell you anything.

Actually, I agree with much of what you say. Sorry for the lead in, but I'm doing it to defuse our "locking of horns" as you stated. I'm not here to flame anyone. It burns me, however, on some issues where people are being fleeced for "performance gains".

Leaving the K&N issue aside, the shocks and lower springs most certainly will improve the handling. Yes, a 928 can be turned into a real road rocket. My intial post, "keep it stock, you'll probably not know the differenc between shocks" is offered to the "average 928 guy" who really and truely will NOT know if he even has a shock that is bad. Don't laugh, it's not as easy as many think, and it is best evaluated at speed, not in the parking lot, because the parking lot bounce test won't replicate the condition where the shock is needed the most.

In any case, for the average guy, like me, I continue to say keep it stock. Anyone out there who has higher skills or the desire to have the ride quality reduced in favor of race car handling, then go for the shock and spring upgrades, and while you're at it, go for the DEVEK sway bars too.

regards, P

fst951 · 04-18-2004, 05:26 AM

HEY, lets keep the list off of my personal problems! At least I can fix wetting the bed, but how are the doctors going to take care of your serious case of UGLY!!!

How you like them apples?

All in fun

Colorado Kid · 04-18-2004, 10:39 AM

after you guys work your differences out -- is there any performance things for the ignition.

fst951 · 04-18-2004, 03:07 PM

Hey Colorado Kid,

I suspect that you should get a new cap rotors and wires and a good set of plugs. If your coil is working well, don't replace it, otherwise a good Bosch coil is easy to find new and for not a whole lot of money. You really won't gain any performance with an MSD or other aftermarket ignition box. Put your money into good tires and seat time.

Thats my thought

..P · 05-03-2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colorado Kid
after you guys work your differences out -- is there any performance things for the ignition.

If you'll take advice from an ugly guy, the answer is "no".

The reason is, it's already high performance, and nothing to be gained going any further.

P

Iggy · 05-03-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colorado Kid
after you guys work your differences out -- is there any performance things for the ignition.

If you've got an '85, look into the FVD performance chips. I've got them on mine and love them. You should also look into getting rid of the catalytic converters (note....off-road use only

) and replace them with a custom "x" cross-over bypass pipe. There's a nice guy named Louis Ott in Oregon that makes them for $350 including shipping. I've got one of them, too, and love it! Louis has dyno'ed cars with the bypass pipe and gets about 30hp added by the pipe.

P.S. The bypass affects the sound of the car, too. Nice and loud. Check the sound clip linked on my webpage (in my signature below).