Chevy 350 in a 928?

[DFWX]

There is an internet listing for 928 performance that promotes (sells) a V-8 swap kit for a 928. One 928 (motorless) I now have was from an abandoned V-8 swap project of someone else and I have a spare 928 Euro motor from still another person who started - never finished - another 350 Chevy 928 swap project.

I am not a restoration purist and see no value in never-driven restorations. If a car show is all about restored cars, I pass it by. I see value in customization and advancement as that is creative. Restorations are just exercises in spending money to reduce a car to a trinket on a shelf. Cars should be driven and improved, rather than restoration inhibited - my view.
So I have no objection to a motor swap in any purist sense whatsoever.
Thus, my view of a Chevy 350 motor swap into a 928 is...


Put a small block Chevy into a Porsche 928?
Are you nuts?
This is dumbheaded, particularly in relation to the 16 valve motor - that you can buy replacement motors for in the $500 range.
The "peak" horsepower of a 928 motor does not tell it's story. They have an incredible horsepower and moreso torque curve.
Unlike an cast iron American V-8, for which the torque drops off dramatically at mid range and horsepower is a mountain
shaped peak, the torque line on a 928 just keeps going up and the horsepower curve is flat, not pointed.
Probably for the cost of the swap kit, you can buy a good, excellent turbocharger on ebay and do some welding plumbing
that will work well with the 8.5 compression ratio of early 4.5 928s, and install 42# injectors from Fords. Eliminate the rear
muffler. Put in cheap lightweight racing seats. Relative to a 350, you have well over 400 horsepower, 6,500 redline and
a car that flies around corners or zips up to 150 - 200 if you go for a longer geared model year 928.
If the 350 Chevy motor is superior, why did 928 Porsches blow away 350 Chevy Corvettes?
By the time you are done with the motor swap, you will have over $5,000 into it even with a used motor. If you can ever get it running. If you can figure how to marry the electrics to each other, if you figure routing the exhaust, if you get it under the hood, if you, if you, if you...
For that money, instead go to 928 Motorsports and buy a supercharger kit. Takes one day to put it on. Add a $700 Borla exhaust. Bingo, you are blowing away anything with a 350 Chevy in it.
And you will have a jaw dropping, awesome under the hood show piece. A supercharged 16 V 928 motor (even more than the 32 Valve) is an awesome appearance motor.
Want to go faster as in drag racing? Add NOS. Now you got 500 horsepower, it took 2 days to do, and you have your fast and furious car. A supercharged, alum alloy double overhead cam, 8 ram manifold, supercharged, NOS Porsche motor. Or a pickup truck iron V-8?
Remember, you are starting with the fastest production car in the USA. You have a great low ratio, but still 150 mph
redline top speed. And, relative to the USA V-8, even in non-turbo form you are making 300 horsepower due to the superior
horsepower and torque curve - plus that spider 8 ram intake is stunning.
If you have never done a cross-model engine swap, do not fool yourself into thinking dropping in a v-8 is going to be easy. Things like the exhaust, electrical system, engine management, hooking up the throtle, all the stuff at the front of the motor, marrying it to the transmission, not messing up linkage, no contact to burn wires or heat to burn the paint job, hoses - try to keep air conditioning, and it goes on and on and on.
And, if you do get it done, what do you have?
It certainly will not increase the value - look at Jaguars with 350s in them.
350 Chevy motor swap-in are as common and as dull as dirt. There is exactly nothing interesting, creative or noteworthy of it.
If that is what you want, go by a 1980s Camero and save your money.
It also is bizarre. It would be like buying an early Triumph Spitfire, then, after a swap, lifting the hood and declaring, "LOOK,
I PUT A GEO METRO MOTOR IN IT, NOW IT IS RELIABLE."
If you just do not like the 928 motor, at least put something notable in it, like a Boss 302, side oiler 427, or an aftermarket aluminum American V-8 such as an SVO, not the most ordinary, mass produced cast iron motor of all - a Chevy V-8.
The marketeer of the kit declares you can buy a new 350 for under $3,000. Really? You can buy a long block with intake for that - and if you put that in? You have the slowest 928 on the road.
I am not a purist in terms of restoration in any sense. This has nothing to do with not altering a Porsche. Rather, putting
a Chevy 350 in place of a Porsche 928 V-8 is just stupid. The 928 even has a deeper throat rumble than a 350.
The end result car you have will not be cool and it will impress no one. The fast and furious crowd will just see it as an
ancient, cast iron hybred of a dunderhead. Exotic car people will see it is indicating you are a low IQ, low income loser.
And muscle car people will recognize it as a cheap car project.
Mostly, once you pull that 928, the odds are 95% that your 928 will never see the road again, and someone like me, years from now, will buy it for a few hundred dollars for spare parts.
Maybe a 350 Chevy in fiberglass repo old roadster makes sense. It is just stupidity in a 928.

[bowtieporsche]

Man, do I have to disagree with you...

http://www.560sec.com/gallery/Porschevy-355

Now I agree the stock 928 is an awesome car, looks and handles better than most new cars today, and great acceleration on the highway, a top speed most people will never hit and definatelty a healthy grumble when the accelerator is pushed. In the past we have owned 5 stock 928's (S's and S4's).

Today though, we own two Chevy converted 928's, one is a stroked 383 with 410 hp and 440 ft. lbs of torque. The other is a supercharged 355 with 545 hp and 542 ft. lbs of torque.

As far as cost, I have about 15,000 into the supercharged 928 total. That's it. Includes a brand new motor, brand new supercharger, brand new 18" turbo twists, brand new actual ferrari yellow paint.

You want rumble, the yellow one is a beast, the black one sounds mild until you depress the throttle and then it is the best sounding car I have ever been near.

As far as handling, it is still a Porsche, the car handles as well as any stock 928, acceleration, no 928 can touch the yellow one, I did a g-timed 0-60 in under 4, my 1/4 mile is in the low 11's. The black one is setup as a daily driver, 0-60 without hard acceleration was 5.2. Show me a non turbo or supercharged 928 that can do that.

O.K., lets now look at the value of the car. Who the hell cares, I'm not selling. But I can tell you I have had offer for more than twice what I have put into it.

Now lets look at one of your last little claims...


"The end result car you have will not be cool and it will impress no one. The fast and furious crowd will just see it as an
ancient, cast iron hybred of a dunderhead. Exotic car people will see it is indicating you are a low IQ, low income loser.
And muscle car people will recognize it as a cheap car project."

We won 1st and 2nd place in our class at the World of Wheels in Minneapolis (a national show), the yellow one just took first place at the "Car Craft Summer Nationals" in St. Paul. So, I guess no one likes them.

Exotic car people see us as having a low IQ. Just 2 weeks ago I got a thumbs up from a Gallardo, try doing that in a stock 928. We have also been 'invited' to the Wheels of Italy show. Name any other non-italian car owner that can say that.

Get a clue, make comments on something you have done, or maybe have had at least 2nd hand experience. Your 'guesses' have all been wrong.

[Rixter]

I have seen 3 Renegade hybrids up close and personal... while I don't necessarily agree with dropping a chevy motor in a 928, it has peaked my interest
I havn't seen what one can do top speed, but I do know it will toast any of my stock 928s in a 1/4 mile
that being said, there is a lot to say for this type of conversion... easier/cheaper to find parts for sure.... easier to work on? not sure about that, the early CIS cars are pretty bloody simple once you do things a couple times
horsepower? hell yeah! I have seen all the various methods (sc, turbo, chevy conversions, etc) but bang for you buck varies according to how much you're going to spend
sure, 500hp sounds great... but at what price? I could easily say I'm going to put this LS-1 motor I have (2003 interceptor) into my shark, but the amount of fabrication and rewiring involved costs a bunch of $$$.. or I could lay out $4-10k and add a sc in a weekend.... not as much horsepower, but a heck of a lot easier
turbo? seen that, not all that impressed with results

so what do you do?
me? my 77 will spank just about anything that comes along and I'm fine with that... and for the long hauls? that's what my S4 does best... and it takes more than a beefed up street car to catch that girl wot

dang, I thought I'd never get into this type of arguement... don't post this on r'list unless you want to see a nuclear meltdown online

[bowtieporsche]

Rixter,

Thanks for general support.

Its nice to know that most of the people out there aren't close minded. But truth be told, just like anything most people do, I did this for myself. So, it doesn;t matter what some people think.

The reason it was easier for us was because the yellow one's conversion was 95% done when we picked it up, they are also both carbeurated, so not as many wires to connect. If you ever do a conversion let us know, would be glad to help.

[DFWX]

I do admre customization in general and a person loves the car they love. If a 350 Chevy is a turn on to a person, more power to them.

The writer who wrote of racing success also likely is quite skilled and experienced in working on cars, including motor build up, fabricating, hooking up electrics, probably welding, and on and on. Most people who undertake a motor swap are not. They read an ad, are shocked by Porsche parts prices - just a set of gaskets and bearing is around $1,000! And the 350 Chevy sway sounds easy and economical.

Of course, for about $500 to $750 they could just buy another still-good
928 16 valve and have it in for around $1,000 and back on the road.

There are clear economic benefits in a Chevy motor over a Porche in terms of motor build up. A 350 cam will cost 1/5th the price of twin V 16 custom cams, 1/10th that of a 4 cammer 928 32 valve. Devel wants $28,000 to do a 6.4 stroker job - though they put it in - and that is with using stock rods and only doing the long block. Wow. I think I read a couple months ago that a person can buy a 4,000 horsepower supercharged AA dragster motor for around $35,000.

But that economics does not happen until the motor is optained and in the car. Essentially ALL motors can be taken to a thousand horsepower. 1.5 liter formula 1 turbos (90 cubic inches) were reaching 900 horsepower.

Spend $15,000 on the motor a 32 valve 4 cam 928 where you know how to do it all yourself? Can fabricate yourself? Egads, what would the be - 500, 600, 700 horsepower?

A 350 Chevy can make horsepower. So can a 1971 AMC 390, or 351 Ford Winsor, or 240 Mopar and on and on.

Maybe what I am talking about is the "wow" factor. It is not easy to find a "wow" in a small block Chevy, being there are 50 million of them.

Cornering, handling etc would be basically the same, as basically the same weight.

I have done motor swaps, though not a 928. Was jamming 427 three duce rat motors where a straight 6 was before, put in a small block Chevy into a Willy wagon... thing such as that 20 or a bit more years ago. And a motor swap, especially across brands and moreso across countries, where there also are elctronics and computers involved? Hoping for a street car with all the options still working right?

That is no novice job. And I question why a 350 Chevy motor, why not something a bit more interesting.

However, I admire anyone so into their car they customize it and set out to improve in a way that involve driving the car. If you are winning races in a Chevy powered 928 - I think that is wonderful. Congratulations!

For road course racing, there may be an advantage in using a 350 Chevy, as (from what I have read) usually they put a 303 928 up against 350 Chevys - so you have a 43 cubic inch advantage - though I could be wrong of that rules issue.

A person can find already built up small block Chevy motors (or nearly any other Ameican V-8) for sale for far less than the parts the person has in it. Yet none of that changes that a motor swap of this nature is not a drop it in task.

In 12 to 24 weeks, I will be showing up at the run-what-you-brung area drag strip. Years ago I was to such places with 427 Rat, 440 Mopar, 390 AMC, Boss 351... and it got, well, boring. So, instead, I willl be showing up in a turbo, but high compression (avoiding lag somewhat) 32 valve, 4 cam, modified exhaust and fuel injection, TEC-3 managed motor - going up against all the American cast iron, of which at least 75% will be Chevy 350.

Although my will have cost less than more cars there - which will range from 1950s to 2000s in model years - people will think mine costly because it is a Porsche. Awesome motor appearance, and I intend to act a bit snobbish too - to be the spoiler they boo and hope to lose.

Knowing the field well and despite some of those being very potent street legalized successful bracket and modified class race cars complete with plexi rather than glass, I still am quite confident.

And I will have less than $15K in my motor. And maybe 5% of the time that a motor swap to a different brand would take.

I agree I overstated my point. I always to to make the point. But I will hold to my position that a peson of limited mechanical skills or experience has no idea what they are getting into in such a motor sway, that it will not make their car "neater" or "easier" or "faster" because it is Chevy 350. And it unlikely they are thinking of spending $15,000, but rather that somehow they will be saving money out of it.

True race cars are always under different concepts and concerns than a street car, no? I am writing of people who are wanting streetable, all power and a/c still there, legal, 928s, not 928 track cars. Pick your class, pick your weapon. But a 3,000 turbo prop motor in it, a 700 CID SVO alloy hemi. Or a Carrera turbo motor - race cars are race cars.

Why, always, 350 Chevy?

If someone told me they ran down an Aluminum Olds 455 V-8 and we replacing a dead 1878 USA version 928 motor with that, it would sound like a pretty cool project to me. I thought the guy you put a 455 Olds Tornado into and early 911 was pretty cool. Quite a few neat 914s with V-8s - though not my style. And that V-8 914 is faster with that V-8 over the air cooled boxer 4 cylinder. But, in my view, a bad choice of a project car.

And I will cheer ANYONE racing a 928 - no exceptions - and certainly if a road course you have the upper hand no matter what motor is up front. So at least there is one agreement.

As the 928 was the only Porsche V-8 muscle car that bested all USA muscle car V-8s of it's era, though the 928 also a luxury road car of outstanding roadwork capability, in a sense my project is a retro showdown with all those Chevy guys - of which I was one in my first of all hotrods of a motor swapped in 437 rat I built up. But, at some point, Chevys just became too, well, ordinary for me. I want to have something other than what everyone else has and be a bit creative in general.

Glad you are into your 928, however that is realized to your satisfaction.

[Iggy]

One of our Detroit 928'ers has a 'Vette engine in his 928. It's a very clean job and runs well. He's got the fastest 928 in our group, putting out 500+hp on a N.A. engine.

Plus...he no longer worries about the 928's timing belt. It's rare for them to have problems, but it's catastrophic when they do.

[DFWX]

Such catastrophy only applies to 32 valve motors, not 16 Valve. Great web site by the way, especially the short sound track!

[DFWX]

Of the posting claiming the Chevy V-8 in a Porsche is faster, this is not exactly
accurate, is it? What is being contrasted is a stock Porsche motor versus a modified Chevy motor.

Yet we come to an interesting question as well. If a Chevy 350 in a 3500 pound car is faster than a 928 motor in a 3500 hundred pound car, why then did Porsche 928 blow away every 350 Chevy motored car, including Corvette, in every single review and rating by every auto magazine in the USA? It certainly was not favoritism to Chevy - as Chevy is who buys all the advertising space.

Why does every video on the Internet showing 928s racing 350 Chevy's (Vettes and Cameros) winning on road courses?

For whatever reason, people tend to keep their 928 motors virtually stock other than minor exhaust or other minor details, while people with Chevy V-8s have to modify theirs for performance? Is it because people with the Porsche motor are satisfied and those with the Chevy are not? If a 303 cid Porsche motor is inferior to a 350 cid Chevy motor, why is it necessary to do EXTENSIVE modifications to the Chevy to make it competition to the 928?

Yes, a person can put in a Chevy motor, VW motor or any other motor they want into their car. But do they gain an economic advantage? For $5,000 - $6,000 a person can put a supercharger with Intercooler kit on their 928, and
do it in a weekend, all nicely under the hood. $5,000 is the lower end price of putting a 350 Chevy into a 928, and that is a primitive carberated 350 Chevy motor.

The 32 valve motor will ultimately bust if a person does not maintain the timing belt, which takes minutes every few months. Geez, it might stand to reason that if a person has a 32 valve, 4 overhead valve motor that was making over 1 horsepower per cubic inch (and much more if the exhaust and fuel/air and timing altered) in a era when other motors were making 0.6 horsepower, you might have to do a bit of maintenance - and might have to change the oil occasionally too.

For a person for which 14 second ets and top speeds (real top speeds) of 145 mph for low ratio early models and well beyond 170 to 190 mph for later models is not enough, merely pulling on a Borla exhaust and (if a later model) a performance chip will knock a second off of that. Want to go faster? Add a supercharger - takes about 8 hours to install (go to 928 motor sports). Still not enough, and NOS.

Contrasting extensively modified motors - regardless of brand - to a factory stock motor is not a legitimate comparison.

Thus, the real question... Has the "Vette powered" 928 gone up against a super or turbo charged 32 Valve 4 cam 928? This is what is relevant, as it would be cheaper and vastly faster to put a supercharger kit on a 928 than put in a Vette motor in it.

Check you timing belt on the 4 cams and change the oil regularly will avoid "The castrastrophy".

All cars follow a cycle of worth. They drop to rediculously low resale and bottom out - which is close to happening on the 928 as it in that time line. Then they are discovered and value shoots up. A "Vette" motor is the same motor found in a delivery van and pickup truck and its design dates back to the mid 1950s. Cast iron. Just dump it carberation.

A person does as they wish with their machine and anyone who loves 350 Chevy motors - and millions and millions of people do - that's great for them. But the assertion that they have a superior Porsche because it has a 1950s era cast iron motor in it? Yeah, right. I have a turbo charged 4.5 16 valve, so to be a 32 valve 5.0.
And I can state clearly what the lesser 4.5 is faster than - both acceleration and top speed - because I built and owned the all:
A 1967 Chevy El Camino with a 3 duce 427 Vette motor, with custom racer brown cam, headers, 3.50 posi rear and tricked turbo 400 automatic.
Faster than a 351 Mustang Boss 351
Faster than a 1969 AMX 390
Faster than a Chrysler 440 magnum
Faster than a twin turbo, intercooled, "Italianized" Maserati

So while I actually like people who modify their cars and do not dispute the right of a person to put a Chevy or a Rambler or a bus motor in their 928, it is nonsense to claim putting in a Chevy motor will inherently make a 928 faster. Rather, there will always have to be more modifications to the Chevy motor than to the Porsche motor for the Chevy to be able to keep up.

If a person is going to spend at least $5,000 for a motor swap, instead go to 928 Motorsports and buy a supercharger. Your entire project will take a short weekend - and the supercharger sounds cool too. Pull your 928 in, put the supercharger and Intercooler on, and roar out - you are done.
If drag racing your 928, spend $500 for an NOS wet system. If you blew or lost your 928 motor (very rare actually), buy another 16 valve motor for under a thousand and supercharge it, having then $6,000 in the project taking two weekends.

Unless you are going for over 1,000 horsepower (for which then Chevy components cheaper), I see no performance merit in using the Chevy motor for performance as either an economic or time-involved factor. And if you are going much over 600 horsepower however this is done, you also must then factor in reworking the torque tube, a different transmission and either a retro to an early dual clutch unit or a custom fab. installation of an automatic transmission. In short, replacing virtually the entire drive train racing components.

Speed is the the issue, either. Aesthetics is. It's like this...

The Porsche GT1 is now the fastest production car on earth - if considered production at 50 a year. And the owner lifts the rear deck, and instead is an overbored, cast iron 468 cid "vette" motor pirated out of a bracket dragster - and the person boasts... "this motor makes nearly 100 horsepower more than the GTI motor did. Smart, huh?"
Two responses.... "If you had instead modified the GTI motor so it was no longer street legal for maximum horsepower and if 7 miles per gallon smelling like a refinery is acceptable, the GTI motor would make 1,000 horsepower."
And a simplier, "are you completely wacko?"

The same of the 928 - fastest production car in world in its day. To lift the hood and instead of the most technologically advanced naturally aspired V-8 in the world in alum alloy, tuned ram intakes, progressive fuel injection, 4 valves per cylinder and 4 overhead cams
- is a cast iron bracket racer type modified motor of a design starting in 1955 with the claim "now it is fast!", is really bad asthetics.

Small block Chevy motors have been put into nearly everything. Ferraris. Lambos. Maseratis. Roadsters. Vintage cars. Boats. Trucks. Airplanes.

Those machines never become collectables, are never auto show winners, and are anything but a self statement in creativity or uniqueness. It is, in a sense, to declare, "look at me! I'm one of the sheep, see? Small block Chevy."

Then why not a side oiler Ford 427? Weighs little more than the Chevy and inherently has what, 25% more horsepower and 35% more torque. Why not an Aluminum Olds V-8? If the person just does not like the Porsche motor, why not something creative, interesting or unique? Boss 302 - now their's a deep breathing motor. 6 pack 440 magnum is bullet proof and nearly Chevy small block size.

Or, why not, look at the gorgeous, awesome, extreme high tech, Porsche alloy broke-all records V-8 and wonder, "You know, if I were to modify this, just how many ponies could I get out it?" Answer, so far, without turbos or superchargers or NOS, is 900 horsepower on gasoline.

Anyone ever get 900 horsepower out of a naturally aspired small block Chevy motor on gasoline. I didn't think so.

[DFWX]

On the otherhand, I suspect the main reason people opt for the Chevy V-8 is due to the EXTREME lack of support of the 928 by either Porsche or any Porsche club or organization. There are about a billion articles of modifying a Chevy motor, and essentially absolutely nothing on the 928 - even in 928 and Porsche circles.

I gripe, a lot, about that in other posting to this group (Abou the PCA).

928 owners themselves need to get this info out - as do the very few specialty companies that still deal in 928 modifications. For lack of this, people increasingly are just throwing in the towel on the 928 motor as they have little to no resources in terms of information.

[deathbyspoon]

I registered on this forum solely because this thread pissed me off.

to quote "Small block Chevy motors have been put into nearly everything. Ferraris. Lambos. Maseratis. Roadsters. Vintage cars. Boats. Trucks. Airplanes.

Those machines never become collectables, are never auto show winners, and are anything but a self statement in creativity or uniqueness."

NEVER AUTO SHOW WINNERS? Anything but a self statement in creativity or uniqueness? That is a load of crap. OK. My buddy has a Fiat X1/9 on a lengthened Jeep CJ chassis with a small block chevy under the hood and was won numerous awards. That car has gotten that man get more pussy than the toilet seat in the women's locker room at the YWCA. Cars with chevy v8 swaps win numerous awards. I'm sure that you know about datsun 240z cars with v8's. Yeah yeah yeah, another datsun v8 swap. Those cars win awards all the time at car shows. And speaking of vintage cars, small block chevys are consistently put into old FORDS and chevrolets, and are consistenltly winning awards.

As far as uniqueness goes...have you been to http://www.v8914.com/ ? Probably not, considering it's not very unique to drop a TWIN SUPERCHARGED, fuel injected, small block chevy into a porsche 914. Especially considering how badass the original 914 motors are. If a porsche 928 with a chevy engine isn't very unique, how many have you run into?

And then you start hating on Spitfire swaps. I'm almost done finishing my 1978 spitfire with a toyota 3tc/5 speed swap. And yes, "Look, i swapped in a toyota motor, now it's reliable". Not only is it reliable, it has almost more than quadruple the horsepower, gets 50 + MPG, eliminated ~200 pounds off the car, and has more of a "wow" factor than any stock spitfire engine.


I can clearly see the reasons for any small block swap. You mention "why not supercharge the porsche engine". 928 motorsports charges $6485.00 for their stage 2 kit, which yields 339 horsepower at the crank, or 279.5 at the rear wheels. So let me get this straight. You are willing to spend roughly $6,500 for 90 rear wheel horsepower? That just doesnt make sense to me.

There's no point in comparing 2 very different engines, as they both have their advantages. Sure porsche engines may be overengineered and highly tuned, while chevy engines still use a primitive (but well proven) pushrod motor. But there's no argument that chevy's pushrod engine is behind some of the world's fastest cars. It comes down to preference and each person's financial capabilities. Personally, i cannot afford to spend $28,000 for a devek stroker motor. But what i can afford is chevy design motor pushing 500 naturall aspirated horsepower.

I'm not trying to argue. I, like yourself, can appreciate all aspects involved in a swap. But to badmouth people's choice to swap the chevy small block engine is unnecessary. Everybody has their own reasons for doing a swap, whether it be for economical reasons or they want to join the "sheep" herd. If somebody wants bolt in a briggs and straton lawnmower engine into a 928, a modifies that little engine to put out 300 horsepower, that's cool too. Lord knows those engines power everything else.

[bowtieporsche]

Hey deathbyspoon,

I'm with you, this guy just wants to attack the sbc. I thought it was originally worth my time, but, it isn't. The guy is going to think whatever he wants, and dribble it out on us here.

For everyone else, I posted a video of my supercharged - chevy-powered 928 (by the way DWF, has won at many car shows).

Check it out here:

http://www.560sec.com/albums/Porschevy-355/Porsche4.wmv

Its about 5 megs, so allow a little time

[Iggy]

Here's a pic of the 928 I mentioned. It had this LS1 motor in it when he spanked us at the drag strip. Since then he's changed a few things and is rumored to be around 500hp and still N.A.

[deathbyspoon]

For the price of devek's head porting and camshafts for the 16V motor, you can have a completely worked over Ls1 pushing in excess of 500 horsepower installed into your porsche.

Iggy has proven my point.

Speed costs much less for a chevy engine than a 928 engine.

[Iggy]

While it may be true that you can simply buy another early-model 928 engine and swap it in for less than $1,000, you still have an engine that puts out early-model 928 horsepower in the 230 range.

It's his car and he can do whatever he wants with it. There will always be purists that hate the idea. I've even gotten criticism for having a Momo steering wheel. Oh well!

[bowtieporsche]

Man, I Love Robs car. He has that thing set up right.

DFWX is not against swaps, he just hates sbc's. I think he is an idiot, but we are all entitled to our opinion.

His rant just doesn't make sense in this forum.

Hey DFWX, go post your stuff here:

http://forums.carcraft.primediaautomotive.com/carcraft/start

[928ram]

Ya know, I see this subject from time to time and I just don't understand the purist's POV when it comes to models like the 928. Sure, replacing the engine in something like a 550 spyder is one thing, but I don't notice 928 values approaching that realm.

You see pretty much the same thing in most car circles; guy replaces the 318 2bbl in his 'cuda, or the 307 2bbl in his Chevelle with something bigger and badder and there's always someone diggin at it because it isn't "orig and correct"; give me a break.

I can appreciate all comers; from the concours retoration to the hot-rod; from the hot-rodded factory engine to the other mfg. engine swap. I can also appreciate the work a fellow puts in to build his car to his liking; if it's not to your taste, fine, but don't dump on other's choices because they don't match yours. I'll look at everyone's car and shake everyone's hand, it's all about being car nuts to me.

[bowtieporsche]

Amen brother

[DFWX]

There is no such thing as a "Bowtie Porsche". The motor is the heart of the machine, and the 928 motor was the most defining and stunning aspect of the model.

The cast small block Chevy motor was designed in early 1950s as the power plant for pickup trucks and sedans.

The reviews tell the story. Motor Trend magazine tested the 928 every year against other cars - on the race track. They never bothered with Cameros - only Vettes. Yet the Vette proved so slow - so slow on acceleraton, so underpowered across the rpm range, and so much slower a top speed, after a few years they ended the comparison and only compared the 928 to Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus and other exotic performance cars.

One Motor Trend reviewer wrote it best: "Any motor can be made to make power. The question is can it do it across the rpm band, do so smoothly and confidently, and do so efficiently? This is the Porsche 928".

They wrote of driving a bone stock 928 around curves at 170 miles per hour, that the motor was not straining and the only sound was the air the 928 was cutting a hole through, and that it did not matter if they entered the curve high or low. The car and the motor in unity were so
well designed that they felt they should just turn on the stereo like they were cruising - while leaving a Lambo Contach V-12 in the rear view mirror.

The response of "Bowtie Porsche" is "oh yeah, well if I but a rumpty rump pushrod cam and a supercharger on a cast iron sbc Chevy V-8, it would blow that 928 away."

Well, actually not. Regardless, such is not the question. But that identical supercharger on a 928 and it is the king.

Given the same ignition, boasted induction and same free-exhaust, the 928 will have 20-25% more horsepower and torque than the SBC and a relative 35% more across the rpm range, get better fuel economy, and be smoother while doing so cubic inch per cubic inch.

Removing an aluminum, twin over bosche direct port fuel injected 928 motor, and certainly a 32 valve, 4 overhead cam 928 motor with a cast iron, pushrod motor circa 1952 is not exactly clever.

Yes, GM motors are a dime a dozen and common as dirt, but a 928 with a GM motor is not a Porsche, but one of millions of hot rods with GM motors.

Granted, an small block Chevy in a 928 will be faster than a small block Chevrolet motor in a Chevrolet chassis and body - because GM makes crappy, outdated mass produced, stamped steel chassis and bodies too.

They used to think using pig hearts for heart transplants was a good idea too - but, then, all those people died.

I will concede that a General Motors motor is a 928 is a vast, radical improvement over a General Motors motor in a General motors car. Because GM makes cheap, mass produced, low grade cookie-cutter products.

But that car is no longer a Porsche. The heart of a Porsche is the motor. There is no substitute.

The photo above tells the story of the inferiority of the GM SBC. Look at all the stuff that had to done to it to make power.

A 928 motor does not need a supercharger and NOS to make 500 horsepower. An SBC GM motor does. That is what the photo above is actually about - showing all the things that must be done to and SBC give it some parity with an EPA, DOT legal bone stock 928 motor.

[bowtieporsche]

So, lets get this straight, if you had a heart transplant from a gay guy, are you now gay?

[deathbyspoon]

"Granted, an small block Chevy in a 928 will be faster than a small block Chevrolet motor in a Chevrolet chassis and body - because GM makes crappy, outdated mass produced, stamped steel chassis and bodies too."

You make excessive reference to the corvette, which i'm sure you know, is fiberglass bodied.

If the porsche is such a refined badass motor, how come it's not being swapped into chevys or other platforms?

And you're right, there is no substitute for the porsche motor in a 928. However, there is a more efficient, cost effective, superior replacement: the small block chevy.

"the photo above tells the story of the inferiority of the GM SBC. Look at all the stuff that had to done to it to make power. "

OK. A FACTORY LS1 ENGINE, AS PICTURED ABOVE, PUTS OUT 350 HORSEPOWER. YES, 350 HORSEPOWER. THATS MORE HORSEPOWER THAN THE 5.4L ENGINE IN THE LAST 928 GTS MADE. YOU CAN BUY ONE OF THESE LS1 ENGINES ON EBAY RIGHT NOW FOR $3600. HOW MUCH DOES A REPLACEMENT 1995 928 GTS MOTOR COST TO REPLACE? THE TOTAL DRESSED WEIGHT OF A LS1 ENGINE IS 457.6 POUNDS. THATS A LOT LESS THAN YOUR 928 ENGINE.

A $300 CAM UPGRADE WILL GIVE THAT CHEVY ENGINE OVER 400 HORSEPOWER.

Bowtie's porsche will stomp your porsche all day long, and when he's done, he'll take your girlfriend for a ride.


"But that identical supercharger on a 928 and it is the king". i think i found a better place to stick that blower.